In April 2006 I had a great time hanging out with Mike Regan, Mitch Coughlin and Blake Bolger on the set of Pumpkinhead III. I remember Mike saying, “Come and hang out in the make-up effects trailer - it’s the coolest place to be.” And it was. A couple of months later I did a phone interview with Mike.
Did you, Mitch and Blake volunteer for this or did you get assigned to go out to Romania?
"A little bit of both. All three of us were on the build at Gary Tunnicliffe’s shop. We’ve all worked for Gary before and we’ve all been out to Romania before. I was in mainly because I did the mechanics. Having worked for Gary before, he chose me because I could repair and I’d been out here before so he trusts me. I’ve worked for him for ten years. Mitch, same thing: he’s been working for Gary a long time and done a couple of projects in Romania. And Blake, just being an extra hand and being someone he could rely on who had been out here before. So those were kind of the criteria: people he was comfortable sending out here to take care of this."
Howe long were you out there for?
"I think Mitch was there a week longer than us but it’s been about two months. We flew out on 11th March, this is the end of May and we’re flying back tomorrow. Mitch was out the week before us so about ten weeks."
Let’s talk a bit about the suit. How heavy is it?
"That’s always kind of a tricky one because it’s different pieces. If you’re talking about the suit, the stilt variety, the stilts themselves are pretty heavy but it was made that way. You can’t really walk in them, they were bolted down long legs. Then the normal, walking around version, you have a foam suit and the head. I think the head is maybe six to eight pounds and the suit itself is about the same, maybe ten. It’s kind of hard to tell, the way it’s spread out over your body. The mechanical head is the heavy part. The stunt head’s not too heavy because there’s really nothing in it."
Are there several complete suits or do you just mix and match pieces?
"It’s kind of two complete suits. Basically we knew, this time around, that Romania wasn’t really going to give us the option of wire work for walking. The suit was built as one suit that’s a head-to-toe thing with the leg extensions and everything. There’s the option to have one leg free. You can take one step at the start of a walk. Then there’s a second suit that is right down to the performer’s feet and then basically you walk on a two-foot high platform that simulates the height of the legs. That allows you to frame the performer from his ankles to the top of the head. Of those two configurations, the hands could be swapped from one to the other, the head obviously could be swapped back and forth. It’s basically all overlapping pieces. There’s legs, a torso that fits from crotch to shoulders, hands that cover the arms - and a head. So two suits that are different configurations."
Is Pumpkinhead actually in the films much? How much use did the suits get?
"It was pretty active. I think the shoots were 25 days each or something. I know on Jake West’s film we pretty much shot every day with maybe just a day here or there off. And I think on Mike Hurst’s film Mike had a different shooting style and he tended to backload a lot of Pumpkinhead shots. There would be days when all we did was Pumpkinhead stuff and I think we had about a week off towards the end. That was to allow them time to shoot a lot of the dialogue stuff before doing the finale which was out in the rain so they wanted that to be the very last day, in case the suit was damaged."
Has the suit been knocked about a lot?
"It’s taken some damage but it’s survived enough. We have to take it back to LA and scan it. I think the CG guy Stephen is slated for about ten shots in each film of the CG Pumpkinhead, which will take care of things like emerging from a burning church, some walking shots or climbing up onto the roof. Things like that, we just couldn’t do in a suit. To the CG guy’s credit, I talked with him a lot about physical stuff and he’s in favour of using physical as much as possible or augmenting physical with digital. I asked him about how they do the digital and he said the model is basically going to be built the way we would do a suit. It’s going to be scanned from the suit so his hope is that, being based on the suit it should pretty much look like the suit. Hopefully you won’t be able to tell the difference." [You can. You really can. - MJS[
How do you actually go about shipping something like that from the USA to Romania and back? Any problems with customs?
"No, not really. A lot of the suit pieces were shipped out in crates, along with the other artefacts and supplies we needed. We took a couple of pieces with us but usually when they run them through X-ray machines it doesn’t show up because it’s foam. Occasionally they’ll ask us to open stuff, like the head could look weird because of all the wires in it. But you’d be surprised, usually when you open up stuff in an airport, people are kind of interested: ‘That’s cool. What’s that?’ It’s always fun."
Apart from Pumpkinhead himself, what other effects have you had to do?
"In both films we’ve done the new version of Haggis, the witch who resurrects Pumpkinhead. Obviously lots of blood and guts and killing. We did some transformation stuff for Lance Henriksen because in one of the films the idea is that, because he was the last one to summon Pumpkinhead then his remains are obviously used to bring it back to life. There’s an intermediate stage where it appears as Lance and then goes from there into Pumpkinhead. So we did transformation pieces for that. There’s a beheading, lots of things getting squashed."
How long did Haggis’ make-up take to apply?
"The very first application was three and a half to four hours and towards the end it was down to about three. It’s a three-piece make-up and then a hairpiece."
When I was out there you were burying skeletons in mud, which looked like the least glamorous thing you could do on a film set.
"Pretty much, yes. They always say that it never rains in June here and it seems that whenever we’re here in June it just won’t stop raining. We’ve had lots of wallowing around in mud that we really didn’t plan on doing. This morning, to celebrate the end of filming, I actually threw away the pair of shoes that I wore: they are just beyond repair. But burying skeletons in mud is part of the plotline in III. The doctor of the town, in order to subsidise his free medical care to the community, he’s harvesting organs and stuff from people in the town that die rather than giving them proper burials. Obviously, when a family member discovers this they decide to call up Pumpkinhead because they don’t realise it’s the doctor, they think it’s this family which owns the mortuary. They decide to get revenge for the improper treatment of their kin.
"The skeletons in the bog are the remains of the people; the furnace hasn’t worked so they bury them in the bog. So yes, my glamorous task was to hunker down and make it look like they’ve been buried there for a while. The problem was actually pulling them back out and cleaning them off. The worst part of it wasn’t even that. We had an actor on it who basically is submerged in it, to represent them disposing of bodies. They submerge him in it - and I can tell you, that actor was coughing up real bog water that got up his nose and into other places where you wouldn’t want water."
Did Jake and Mike both work well with you guys?
"They both have very different shooting styles. Mike tends to be very fast and have a very clear train of thought and vision. Jake tends to be a bit more artistic and sometimes it was tough to know exactly what he wanted until he was there and had seen something. I think maybe the short schedule hampered his style. He would have a grand vision of something and have to cut back to get it done in the time he had. But I saw a cut trailer for it and it looks fun so it will be interesting to see how they both turn out. I’m hoping they’ll be a lot of fun.”
Showing posts with label effects. Show all posts
Showing posts with label effects. Show all posts
Tuesday, 14 June 2016
Tuesday, 9 September 2014
interview: Jorg Buttgereit
Back in March 1998 I interviewed legendary underground German film-maker Jorg Buttgereit by phone for SFX. His movie Der Todesking was out on VHS - and he had also recently published a German book about his great love, Godzilla movies. I was only able to use part of the interview. This full version has never been seen before.
I enjoyed Der Todesking but I didn't understand it. What was the idea behind it?
"The reason why you didn't understand it maybe is that it's a combination of a lot of ideas, not just a basic idea. For us, it was very important to set ourselves free of Nekromantik. The so-called horror audience was very pushy, and to top something like Nekromantik is very hard, as you can imagine. So we wanted to do some different things and we tried to put them all into one movie. We didn't care a lot about convention. So we did a movie with all these suicidal people and with no main actor at all, which is a terrible thing normally. The main actor was kind of the rotting corpse that is seen between episodes.
"It's a more kind of arty approach. It had nothing to do with mainstream cinema and we didn't care about the commercial success or anything like that. We just set ourselves free after Nekromantik because we were afraid of being a slave to our limited success. For this kind of movie, Nekromantik was a big success. Of course, we didn't make a lot of money with it but it had so much coverage from everywhere. Everybody was keen to see what's coming next, and that's a terrible thing to be. It's like Tarantino after Pulp Fiction: what is he doing? He's doing a very slo-o-ow movie. have you seen Jackie Brown?"
Not yet.
"Nothing is happening in this movie! You can watch very boring things a few times, but if it were not for all the good actors, this movie would have been terrible. But he's stuffed it with great actors, so it's great. But it's also a very arty approach."
Did you have any control over the English subtitling of Der Todesking?
"It's hard to remember. I think someone did it for us, but we produced the subtitled version in the end."
It's very funny when a five-minute phone conversation is subtitled 'I quit'.
"That was my idea. I felt so stupid trying to translate all the stuff he was saying, and in the end the only fact was that he quit. We had this finished movie and we had the need to do subtitles, and it gives you even more ideas. So that was something strange! It was funny too. This guy is talking to his job and telling them that he quits and he will get his things later and he will get his tax stuff and everything. All this normal stuff, and I didn't find it very worthwhile to translate it. And it's a good twist. Just: 'I quit'. I've never seen these things before."
If you were trying to get away from Nekromantik, why did you then do Nekromantik 2?
"It was not that we were actually going away from it. It was still about death and about corpses - though not corpse fucking. About the process of decaying. Our problem was that a mainly horror audience, who are always open-minded, which is good; they also just take you and tell you, 'You are now our horror hero.' And I thought that it could be dangerous. But if you have a look at Nekromantik 2, it's a totally different movie than Nekromantik. I found out later that - which is kind of a concept and seems to work - that this is a horror movie for women, maybe. Because it was shown at a women's film festival in Austria once. I think this was in '93. Even I wasn't allowed to go there just because I was a man; it was a strictly women only place. And it went down pretty well. Because out of context, it showed the whole movie from the point of view of a woman.
"Normally in those so-called general horror movies, you have women only in the movie to be victims. You need someone for the main guy to have sex with, or you can kill her or you can rape her. Normally, you only do bad things to women. We tried to do it the opposite way, to give a new impulse to the very sick horror genre. That was our intention. So I think Nekromantik 2 is in a way the same as Der Todesking in trying to get away from the bad things in horror movies. I'm not trying to say that horror movies are bad, I'm only trying to say that some horror movies are too stiff. For me, the meaning of a good horror movie is to broaden the horror. When you have science fiction stuff or horror stuff, you are able to do so many things. But normally, what the producers do is follow a certain concept that was successful one time, and that's starting to get boring."
Clearly Nekromantik 2 had a lot of problems.
"It was a problem, but now it's free again."
When you were making the film, did you expect that much response?
"Of course not. One of the drives behind the first Nekromantik was to see how far you could go before something happens like this - and nothing happened. With Der Todesking nothing happened also. So during Nekromantik 2 I felt pretty safe. But it seems that by the time Nekromantik 2 was released - it was at the end of the screening of Nekromantik 2, half a year after it was released - that this thing happened in Munich. Munich is a special difficult town for films like that - or it has been, it's not any more. So this happened and nobody was really prepared for it."
Over here we have very strict censorship.
"Yes, that's the reason why only Der Todesking is out. Der Todesking is also in a slightly edited version."
What is censorship like in Germany?
"For me, it's very hard to say because I would describe Germany as being as problematic as Great Britain because I had these bad experiences. But I had the same experiences in Great Britain too when I tried to screen Nekromantik at a film festival in Manchester. In Glasgow they didn't allow me to get into the cinema, which was strange too. But that is okay by me, because the main problem with Nekromantik 2 was that they really tried to destroy the negatives. And they tried to do this before there was a court decision. I had to prove that this film was art, which we successfully did in the end, but it took us two years. If we hadn't had any success, it would have cost us a lot of money too. In this case, the government had to pay for it because they made the mistake.
"That's also one of the strange things. Over here, normally there is no censorship; there is no censorship law. It's mainly the FSK, which is like the BBFC, and you have to get your film to them if you want to have certification under 18. But over here it's kind of free. On paper, it says 'Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle der Filmwirtschaft' - free self-control for film business. So I said, 'If it's free, I won't take it'. Then they had to think of something to put me away. So what they did is, they just said that I am doing something against the law because I am glorifying violence, which is a criminal act. So they made me a criminal man. I did something criminal, and if I'm doing a criminal act, then it is no art at all. If they make you a criminal, then they can do what they want, and that is what they were trying to do."
When a film is banned, does it become more popular among horror fans because they can't see it?
"Yes, of course. The whole concept of censorship, the whole concept of freeing people from bad movies could be a whole commercial thing. I remember when I was young, films that had the '18' sign had more of a reputation. Like: this film is only a '12' rating, so don't bother going to see it. It was more attractive to young people, and censors should know this. That they are doing the best they can to promote the film, which is not their job, I think. On the other hand, it's kind of bad because it gives you a reputation for a certain theme, but you can't cash in on it because the film is not available to view. So it's really not getting you anywhere! It's a lot of hype, but no use. It's really depressing: sitting in your room, knowing that everybody wants to see your film but you're not allowed to give it to them. And that's one of the main reasons you are making films - to let them be screened in cinemas. But video gave a lot of freedom to some people. I think bootleggers were busy during that time."
Tell me about your early super-8 films like Interview with Frankenstein.
"That was kind of strange. I bought this camera, and on the same day I had this super-8 film which lasts 2.5 minutes. I just had this great Boris Karloff mask, I put it on my friend and we did this interview. I was interviewing him, and after 2.5 minutes it was over because Frankenstein is killing the interviewer! Normally I don't put these things into my filmography because it was just a film I showed sometimes to friends. There is not even a print, only the original is available. it was super-8, just the first 15 metres of film I ever exposed. That was going on for a while. I was shooting movies, showing them to friends, and then they showed them to other people. We built a super-8 cinema here in Berlin. When I was doing a new film, there was always a bigger bunch next time who wanted to see them. So it was always a very natural thing to just go on and on and on."
Did you learn things on the super-8 films that you could bring to the features?
"Sure, of course. That's the education I got, because I was turned down from a Berlin film school in '87. And when they told me that they wouldn't take me, I made Nekromantik as revenge. The funny thing is that the film school invited me, about eight years later, to do a lecture there. So I had the feeling that I did something wrong in the end. Because I didn't have any official education, but I just made movies and I just watched movies. While doing movies, you do all these mistakes and you learn a lot. It costs you some money, but it's okay. And my mistakes were funny enough for people to watch, so it was really no loss in the end. But my earlier films are much more funny, they are nothing compared to Nekromantik."
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Why have you moved away from funny, fantastical films?
"That just happened. It's very strange. When I decided to do the first feature film on my own, it was just getting more serious. I don't exactly know why. Even today, I'm amazed how seriously people are taking Nekromantik, because for me it doesn't work the same way, as you can imagine. I always see the things that are wrong in that movie, and there's a lot of wrong things going on. There was no script, and stuff like that. The plus point on the movie is that you can see that the guys that did the movie are very into it. That's something bigger budget movies don't have: this kind of insanity that they just go for the sake of it. It's a very rare thing, and it's even more rare today, I think, to have these things.
"I did this four times. I did four feature films with no money, and after a while you're just reaching your limit of what you can do with this kind of money, and what you can do artwise. My approach always was, and I hope this can be seen in the films, that I don't want to do straight-faced horror movies. It was more like letting people start to think, giving them a few stitches, so they feel the need to think about what they see. I know that a lot of hardcore horror fans that are very much into Braindead and things like that get very bored by my horror films, because it takes a while before the things happen. It also takes a while before someone gets killed. After a while, it's not funny any more. I think it's mainly a natural approach I'm trying to get here, a fake documentary style to grab the people even more.
"And I never deal with any supernatural stuff, Like Romero for example. He did very great films but I think he was always best when he was doing realistic things. I very much prefer Day of the Dead to Dawn of the Dead because I think it's far more powerful. It's really not very fun after a while, and it should be like this. This gets me to the point where I always used to say that I don't think that I'm doing violent movies, because I don't think the violence is shown in a glorifying way or in a way that is letting you think that violence could be a solution or could be something harmless. I'm always trying to go for the real thing which is painful and very messy. That's why I'm always very pissed off when somebody, like in Germany, says that I'm glorifying violence and should be banned. If he wants to ban me, he needs another excuse! That's the problem."
There seems to be a recurring theme in your films of dicks being cut off.
"That's one of the easy taboos you can break - showing a dick. In Nekromantik it's very obvious that there's a connection between life and death, or sex and death. The main character gets his last kicks out of his own death. The idea came from a book I read where someone who was an executioner was writing his diary. He wrote that when he hanged someone, during the moment of death those people get a last hard-on, and they even get a last climax. I don't know why. But here you have the same connection, and I thought, 'Well, I've never seen this in a movie.' It was a very naive approach I had, but I also had the feeling that it was something that should be on the screen because it has something in it.
"Later on, in the other movies, it was mainly the same: just dig deeper into the subject. What is sex all about? What is life and death all about? The funny thing after all this, is that this is the problem. My films are not very harmful to people in terms of glorifying violence or something like that; they are just dealing with things that normally people are trying to hide. They just don't want to think about those things, not in that straight way. Surprisingly enough, my main enemies who are fighting against me, these lawyers and people like that, they have never seen my films. That concept is part of the whole censorship thing over here: that people who are against it never care to watch the films."
Have you made a film since Schramm?
"Not a feature film of my own, no. I wasn't really satisfied with the low budgets. It wasn't even low budget, it was really no-budget. And nobody got paid. I started to sit back and wait because what happens is that so many people like my movies, but there's nobody who wants to give money for them."
If somebody did come up with the money, do you have something you want to make?
"I have three scripts lying around. Once in a while, I approach a possible producer. They mainly like it, but it's not mainstream enough for them. So the things I did after Schramm were mainly music videos and I did special effects supervision on The Killer Condom. Then I did, although it has not been finished, another special effects job on a movie that will be done later this year for a guy who is one of the last independent film-makers over here. Right now, I'm starting to produce one episode of Lexx, which is starting to get busy."
Are these people who know your work?
"Yes, even the producer of Lexx, the guy who gave life to the whole Lexx project, Paul Donovan from Canada. I met him in Spain at a film festival and he saw my movies and he was totally amazed. But it was very hard for him to convince German producers who put money into the whole Lexx thing to get me for the job. Everybody in Germany is afraid of me because they don't want to be banned. So during the first season, they really pushed me away. Paul Donovan the producer was totally pissed off by that. So now that it's more successful, he wasn't very satisfied with everything, so he can now order me into the series. He's having more freedom now, because last time the Germans decided, this time the Canadians decide.
"But it's hard to say how much input I really can have into the thing because it's a limited thing. I think they are making 20 more episodes, and I am the creative producer on one episode, and I have the option of doing one or two as a director later on in Canada. But I don't know if I'm happy with it because it's a mainstream thing and I don't know how far I can go on TV. The things I did for TV in Germany until now are mainly documentaries. Documentaries about pathologists and stuff that is interesting me anyway. That's something which you can do in Germany on the documentary side. I did two or three TV documentaries, short ones, but only one has been screened by now. Also some video clips, and last year I wrote a book about Godzilla movies, which hasn't got much to do with my own movies. I think that's also one of the chances of the Lexx thing, to put my early '60s Godzilla fashion onto the screen too. Having something to do with science fiction, it's just an easy field where I find myself very comfortable. I don't have to push myself to go to work, when working on Lexx. Even if I don't think I can turn the whole series upside-down."
What do you do as creative producer?
"It's not quite sure at the moment because I'm just starting next week. What I'm doing now is just picking actors together with the producers. It's a German-Canadian co-production. I tell them which actors are cool and which actors are not cool! These type of things. It's hard to say how it will develop because I just started."
What do you know about Xenia Seeberg?
"I told the producer about her. She's kind of famous from a very cheesy nursing soap opera, called Geliebte Schwestern - 'lovely nurses'! I tried to watch it once, but it was terrible! But the producer asked me to name a babe and I guess that's what she is. She will be starting in episode three. I'm producing episode five, so I have to work with her. But I won't meet her until next month. But I guess shes quite good for the role."
Tell me about working on Killer Condom. Was it a big film in Germany?
"By German standards, it's quite big. The money came from Switzerland, because it's a done by a guy called Irwin C Dietrich, who's the main force, the main money man in the background. He used to do films with Jess Franco and all these sleazy exploitation things, '70s horror movies."
What was HR Giger's involvement with the film?
"The problem with Giger was that he just came too late to the whole project. So we were trying to push him over to the art department, but it was too late also. He did something here and there but his involvement was not a lot."
Was he happy with his credit staying on Killer Condom.
"If I were him, I wouldn't have been happy. But the director Martin Walz told me that after the premiere, he told him that he very much liked the film, even if there was nothing of his in the movie, and that's a good sign, I guess. During the production he was kind of angry and I had the feeling that he was right. Because they mainly did try to cash in on his name, which isn't fair because he's doing great things. For me, it was okay. I met him and I gave him some of my films and he liked them very much. At the end, he also offered me a project, and we were trying to get money for a project for the both of us. It's a concept based on a castration machine that he designed. We built a story around that and we tried to get money for it which didn't work out yet. When I talked to one of the producers from Lexx, there was talk of maybe including this concept in one of the Lexx episodes but I don't want to spoil my own movie."
Is Giger working on Lexx?
"I don't think so. Giger was planned. The plan was that, because I worked with him - he really is an artist, and as an artist he really is not very easy to work with. So the idea was that if Giger is involved I should do one of these episodes. But I think they decided not to use him because they move so fast now that they simply can't put everything in place with him. It would be like in Condom, it wouldn't be the real thing in the end."
He's very annoyed about Species 2 using his name and only using his designs for about eight seconds.
"He should get used to this by now! I think in generally he's just pissed off - and he's right - at how the film industry is dealing with him. But what can you do? He needs to have more impact, more power on a movie. But to have more power on a movie you have to be more bankable, but now he's treated as someone who's not very easy to work with. It's a shame. But all the concepts he's doing, he's not thinking in a money way. He's having some ideas, but most of the time the line producers get heart attacks because its just too expensive. That's also one of the problems with the project we had written. On the one hand it was too extreme, and on the other hand it was too expensive. I haven't spoken to him in quite a while because it's just not happening and I'm always busy with video clips or whatever. And there are these two other projects I would like to do too. I can't even get money for those - and they are cheap! It's just very, very complicated to get money for unusual films."
Would you be better moving to America?
"It's hard to say. I met Quentin Tarantino once at a film festival at Sitges and I gave him the story outline of that Giger project. He seemed to be interested, but I've never heard from him again. But he's busy enough with his own movies. My experience was that in America it's even more difficult to get unusual stuff done because they only care about the profits. I don't care about profits that much. I care about it in a way, because otherwise you can't do it. Doing films is so expensive, it has to be commercial - but people don't treat me like I'm doing commercial movies. If you compare my movies to bigger ones, then a film like Nekromantik is commercially very successful because it made its money back very fast. Not because it was such a big seller, but because it was so cheap!
"So in a certain scene I'm very commercial, but people can't put that into a bigger context, that's the problem. The German producers are not used to trying to get their money back from the rest of the world. They always try to get their money back inside Germany, which is pointless. I didn't make the money for my films in Germany. It all came from the sales to Japan or to Spain or to France. If I had kept on selling my films only in Germany, then I would be dead by now, I think!"
Finally, tell me about your interest in Godzilla.
"The Godzilla movies were the first movies I saw, and it always sticks to you. For as long as I can remember, I'm going to cinemas to watch Godzilla movies. In the late '60s I started when I was four or five years old - and it just never stopped. So when I heard that Roland Emmerich - our German Roland Emmerich - is doing a Godzilla movie now, I felt that it was time at least to do a book about those films over here in Germany. Because in Germany there's no literature about science fiction films, there's no literature about Japanese monster movies. The book I've written is mostly about Japanese monster movies, not only Godzilla but also the Gamera movies and so on. It's stuffed with 50 movies and it went down really well. It just came out three weeks ago and I did some promotional screenings with old Godzilla movies in Munich and Berlin and Hamburg. It went pretty well, so I hope at least the old Godzilla fans will grab the book. Maybe we might even get it to other countries."
Are the Godzilla films very popular in Germany?
"It's hard to say. People know who Godzilla is, but they laugh about it. Even the so-called serious film critics don't even bother watching them carefully. So my approach was getting the reputation of Godzilla in a better way out to the people. Because as film history they have so many things to offer that American monster movies don't have. This naive way of approaching the whole thing. They don't pretend to be realistic; they don't care about it. They just care about looking great! That whole concept. As a child of course, you are very attracted to large things that do what they want, because as a kid you are not allowed to do what you want. And that's what you want to do: you want to run around and smash everything. That's, I think, part of the concept why everybody is happy with Godzilla movies. All the metaphorical meaning in Japan is totally different; you really have to keep that in mind if you watch those movies to understand them."
In Germany, the Godzilla films all had strange title, mostly refering to Frankenstein.
"I think one of the reasons is that the Japanese did a film, which the American title was Frankenstein Conquers the World. That's where they really took the Frankenstein monster and put it into a Japanese context. That movie is the only one where Hiroshima actually happens on screen. That film came out quite early in Germany. Afterwards, they just tried to cash in on that Frankenstein name because Godzilla wasn't such a name in the late '60s and early '70s. So they just put 'Frankenstein' on everything - which is embarrassing! So if you have a movie like Godzilla Vs the Smog Monster, which is one of my favourites, in Germany the title translates as 'Frankenstein Vs the Devil-Monsters'. Which is even more strange than the film! That's very bad, but there is lots of good posters and artwork over here, and the book is stuffed with this kind of thing."
Did the 1990s Godzilla films come out in Germany?
"One small distributor was trying to get Godzilla Vs King Ghidorah out in the cinemas, but after two months the distributor went bankrupt. I don't know if that was a good or bad thing! So it was mainly straight to video, far more than you have in Britain. The thing is that after 1993 Toho didn't sell the world rights of the later movies because they were waiting for the American movie to be released, then they can make even more money. That's the idea; they don't want to spoil the market for the American production. Older films like Godzilla Vs the Smog Monster have also disappeared over here. I can still get hold of one 35mm print, and I screened it two weeks ago in East Berlin at the book presentation, but officially it's not available any more. I just got a list of DVDs from the US that are coming out. King Kong Vs Godzilla is announced for May. It's mainly the same thing that they put out in America all the time: Godzilla, King of the Monsters, the Raymond Burr version; Godzilla Vs Mothra, the '64 version; Godzilla's Revenge, Terror of Mechagodzilla and Monster Zero. Which is great, but you have Monster Zero also."
These films have far too many titles.
"That's also one part of the book: a whole film index. The German, British, American and Japanese titles are all in there."
Have the recent Gamera films come out in Germany?
"Only the first one, Guardian of the Universe. But after a while, I just started getting the laserdiscs from Japan. Far more satisfying. And now that DVD is getting further, it will be a new challenge to get those films in better versions. You have standard and widescreen versions, you have production notes, you have remastered sound and picture quality: all those things that are necessary! Warners are doing a great job. If you watch Mars Attacks!, it's really mind-blowing. You have freeze-frames as clear as photos."
website: www.joergbuttgereit.com
I enjoyed Der Todesking but I didn't understand it. What was the idea behind it?
"The reason why you didn't understand it maybe is that it's a combination of a lot of ideas, not just a basic idea. For us, it was very important to set ourselves free of Nekromantik. The so-called horror audience was very pushy, and to top something like Nekromantik is very hard, as you can imagine. So we wanted to do some different things and we tried to put them all into one movie. We didn't care a lot about convention. So we did a movie with all these suicidal people and with no main actor at all, which is a terrible thing normally. The main actor was kind of the rotting corpse that is seen between episodes.
"It's a more kind of arty approach. It had nothing to do with mainstream cinema and we didn't care about the commercial success or anything like that. We just set ourselves free after Nekromantik because we were afraid of being a slave to our limited success. For this kind of movie, Nekromantik was a big success. Of course, we didn't make a lot of money with it but it had so much coverage from everywhere. Everybody was keen to see what's coming next, and that's a terrible thing to be. It's like Tarantino after Pulp Fiction: what is he doing? He's doing a very slo-o-ow movie. have you seen Jackie Brown?"
Not yet.
"Nothing is happening in this movie! You can watch very boring things a few times, but if it were not for all the good actors, this movie would have been terrible. But he's stuffed it with great actors, so it's great. But it's also a very arty approach."
Did you have any control over the English subtitling of Der Todesking?"It's hard to remember. I think someone did it for us, but we produced the subtitled version in the end."
It's very funny when a five-minute phone conversation is subtitled 'I quit'.
"That was my idea. I felt so stupid trying to translate all the stuff he was saying, and in the end the only fact was that he quit. We had this finished movie and we had the need to do subtitles, and it gives you even more ideas. So that was something strange! It was funny too. This guy is talking to his job and telling them that he quits and he will get his things later and he will get his tax stuff and everything. All this normal stuff, and I didn't find it very worthwhile to translate it. And it's a good twist. Just: 'I quit'. I've never seen these things before."
If you were trying to get away from Nekromantik, why did you then do Nekromantik 2?
"It was not that we were actually going away from it. It was still about death and about corpses - though not corpse fucking. About the process of decaying. Our problem was that a mainly horror audience, who are always open-minded, which is good; they also just take you and tell you, 'You are now our horror hero.' And I thought that it could be dangerous. But if you have a look at Nekromantik 2, it's a totally different movie than Nekromantik. I found out later that - which is kind of a concept and seems to work - that this is a horror movie for women, maybe. Because it was shown at a women's film festival in Austria once. I think this was in '93. Even I wasn't allowed to go there just because I was a man; it was a strictly women only place. And it went down pretty well. Because out of context, it showed the whole movie from the point of view of a woman.
"Normally in those so-called general horror movies, you have women only in the movie to be victims. You need someone for the main guy to have sex with, or you can kill her or you can rape her. Normally, you only do bad things to women. We tried to do it the opposite way, to give a new impulse to the very sick horror genre. That was our intention. So I think Nekromantik 2 is in a way the same as Der Todesking in trying to get away from the bad things in horror movies. I'm not trying to say that horror movies are bad, I'm only trying to say that some horror movies are too stiff. For me, the meaning of a good horror movie is to broaden the horror. When you have science fiction stuff or horror stuff, you are able to do so many things. But normally, what the producers do is follow a certain concept that was successful one time, and that's starting to get boring."
Clearly Nekromantik 2 had a lot of problems."It was a problem, but now it's free again."
When you were making the film, did you expect that much response?
"Of course not. One of the drives behind the first Nekromantik was to see how far you could go before something happens like this - and nothing happened. With Der Todesking nothing happened also. So during Nekromantik 2 I felt pretty safe. But it seems that by the time Nekromantik 2 was released - it was at the end of the screening of Nekromantik 2, half a year after it was released - that this thing happened in Munich. Munich is a special difficult town for films like that - or it has been, it's not any more. So this happened and nobody was really prepared for it."
Over here we have very strict censorship.
"Yes, that's the reason why only Der Todesking is out. Der Todesking is also in a slightly edited version."
What is censorship like in Germany?
"For me, it's very hard to say because I would describe Germany as being as problematic as Great Britain because I had these bad experiences. But I had the same experiences in Great Britain too when I tried to screen Nekromantik at a film festival in Manchester. In Glasgow they didn't allow me to get into the cinema, which was strange too. But that is okay by me, because the main problem with Nekromantik 2 was that they really tried to destroy the negatives. And they tried to do this before there was a court decision. I had to prove that this film was art, which we successfully did in the end, but it took us two years. If we hadn't had any success, it would have cost us a lot of money too. In this case, the government had to pay for it because they made the mistake.
"That's also one of the strange things. Over here, normally there is no censorship; there is no censorship law. It's mainly the FSK, which is like the BBFC, and you have to get your film to them if you want to have certification under 18. But over here it's kind of free. On paper, it says 'Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle der Filmwirtschaft' - free self-control for film business. So I said, 'If it's free, I won't take it'. Then they had to think of something to put me away. So what they did is, they just said that I am doing something against the law because I am glorifying violence, which is a criminal act. So they made me a criminal man. I did something criminal, and if I'm doing a criminal act, then it is no art at all. If they make you a criminal, then they can do what they want, and that is what they were trying to do."
"Yes, of course. The whole concept of censorship, the whole concept of freeing people from bad movies could be a whole commercial thing. I remember when I was young, films that had the '18' sign had more of a reputation. Like: this film is only a '12' rating, so don't bother going to see it. It was more attractive to young people, and censors should know this. That they are doing the best they can to promote the film, which is not their job, I think. On the other hand, it's kind of bad because it gives you a reputation for a certain theme, but you can't cash in on it because the film is not available to view. So it's really not getting you anywhere! It's a lot of hype, but no use. It's really depressing: sitting in your room, knowing that everybody wants to see your film but you're not allowed to give it to them. And that's one of the main reasons you are making films - to let them be screened in cinemas. But video gave a lot of freedom to some people. I think bootleggers were busy during that time."
Tell me about your early super-8 films like Interview with Frankenstein.
"That was kind of strange. I bought this camera, and on the same day I had this super-8 film which lasts 2.5 minutes. I just had this great Boris Karloff mask, I put it on my friend and we did this interview. I was interviewing him, and after 2.5 minutes it was over because Frankenstein is killing the interviewer! Normally I don't put these things into my filmography because it was just a film I showed sometimes to friends. There is not even a print, only the original is available. it was super-8, just the first 15 metres of film I ever exposed. That was going on for a while. I was shooting movies, showing them to friends, and then they showed them to other people. We built a super-8 cinema here in Berlin. When I was doing a new film, there was always a bigger bunch next time who wanted to see them. So it was always a very natural thing to just go on and on and on."
Did you learn things on the super-8 films that you could bring to the features?
"Sure, of course. That's the education I got, because I was turned down from a Berlin film school in '87. And when they told me that they wouldn't take me, I made Nekromantik as revenge. The funny thing is that the film school invited me, about eight years later, to do a lecture there. So I had the feeling that I did something wrong in the end. Because I didn't have any official education, but I just made movies and I just watched movies. While doing movies, you do all these mistakes and you learn a lot. It costs you some money, but it's okay. And my mistakes were funny enough for people to watch, so it was really no loss in the end. But my earlier films are much more funny, they are nothing compared to Nekromantik."
"That just happened. It's very strange. When I decided to do the first feature film on my own, it was just getting more serious. I don't exactly know why. Even today, I'm amazed how seriously people are taking Nekromantik, because for me it doesn't work the same way, as you can imagine. I always see the things that are wrong in that movie, and there's a lot of wrong things going on. There was no script, and stuff like that. The plus point on the movie is that you can see that the guys that did the movie are very into it. That's something bigger budget movies don't have: this kind of insanity that they just go for the sake of it. It's a very rare thing, and it's even more rare today, I think, to have these things.
"I did this four times. I did four feature films with no money, and after a while you're just reaching your limit of what you can do with this kind of money, and what you can do artwise. My approach always was, and I hope this can be seen in the films, that I don't want to do straight-faced horror movies. It was more like letting people start to think, giving them a few stitches, so they feel the need to think about what they see. I know that a lot of hardcore horror fans that are very much into Braindead and things like that get very bored by my horror films, because it takes a while before the things happen. It also takes a while before someone gets killed. After a while, it's not funny any more. I think it's mainly a natural approach I'm trying to get here, a fake documentary style to grab the people even more.
"And I never deal with any supernatural stuff, Like Romero for example. He did very great films but I think he was always best when he was doing realistic things. I very much prefer Day of the Dead to Dawn of the Dead because I think it's far more powerful. It's really not very fun after a while, and it should be like this. This gets me to the point where I always used to say that I don't think that I'm doing violent movies, because I don't think the violence is shown in a glorifying way or in a way that is letting you think that violence could be a solution or could be something harmless. I'm always trying to go for the real thing which is painful and very messy. That's why I'm always very pissed off when somebody, like in Germany, says that I'm glorifying violence and should be banned. If he wants to ban me, he needs another excuse! That's the problem."
There seems to be a recurring theme in your films of dicks being cut off.
"That's one of the easy taboos you can break - showing a dick. In Nekromantik it's very obvious that there's a connection between life and death, or sex and death. The main character gets his last kicks out of his own death. The idea came from a book I read where someone who was an executioner was writing his diary. He wrote that when he hanged someone, during the moment of death those people get a last hard-on, and they even get a last climax. I don't know why. But here you have the same connection, and I thought, 'Well, I've never seen this in a movie.' It was a very naive approach I had, but I also had the feeling that it was something that should be on the screen because it has something in it.
"Later on, in the other movies, it was mainly the same: just dig deeper into the subject. What is sex all about? What is life and death all about? The funny thing after all this, is that this is the problem. My films are not very harmful to people in terms of glorifying violence or something like that; they are just dealing with things that normally people are trying to hide. They just don't want to think about those things, not in that straight way. Surprisingly enough, my main enemies who are fighting against me, these lawyers and people like that, they have never seen my films. That concept is part of the whole censorship thing over here: that people who are against it never care to watch the films."
Have you made a film since Schramm?
"Not a feature film of my own, no. I wasn't really satisfied with the low budgets. It wasn't even low budget, it was really no-budget. And nobody got paid. I started to sit back and wait because what happens is that so many people like my movies, but there's nobody who wants to give money for them."
If somebody did come up with the money, do you have something you want to make?
"I have three scripts lying around. Once in a while, I approach a possible producer. They mainly like it, but it's not mainstream enough for them. So the things I did after Schramm were mainly music videos and I did special effects supervision on The Killer Condom. Then I did, although it has not been finished, another special effects job on a movie that will be done later this year for a guy who is one of the last independent film-makers over here. Right now, I'm starting to produce one episode of Lexx, which is starting to get busy."
"Yes, even the producer of Lexx, the guy who gave life to the whole Lexx project, Paul Donovan from Canada. I met him in Spain at a film festival and he saw my movies and he was totally amazed. But it was very hard for him to convince German producers who put money into the whole Lexx thing to get me for the job. Everybody in Germany is afraid of me because they don't want to be banned. So during the first season, they really pushed me away. Paul Donovan the producer was totally pissed off by that. So now that it's more successful, he wasn't very satisfied with everything, so he can now order me into the series. He's having more freedom now, because last time the Germans decided, this time the Canadians decide.
"But it's hard to say how much input I really can have into the thing because it's a limited thing. I think they are making 20 more episodes, and I am the creative producer on one episode, and I have the option of doing one or two as a director later on in Canada. But I don't know if I'm happy with it because it's a mainstream thing and I don't know how far I can go on TV. The things I did for TV in Germany until now are mainly documentaries. Documentaries about pathologists and stuff that is interesting me anyway. That's something which you can do in Germany on the documentary side. I did two or three TV documentaries, short ones, but only one has been screened by now. Also some video clips, and last year I wrote a book about Godzilla movies, which hasn't got much to do with my own movies. I think that's also one of the chances of the Lexx thing, to put my early '60s Godzilla fashion onto the screen too. Having something to do with science fiction, it's just an easy field where I find myself very comfortable. I don't have to push myself to go to work, when working on Lexx. Even if I don't think I can turn the whole series upside-down."
What do you do as creative producer?
"It's not quite sure at the moment because I'm just starting next week. What I'm doing now is just picking actors together with the producers. It's a German-Canadian co-production. I tell them which actors are cool and which actors are not cool! These type of things. It's hard to say how it will develop because I just started."
What do you know about Xenia Seeberg?"I told the producer about her. She's kind of famous from a very cheesy nursing soap opera, called Geliebte Schwestern - 'lovely nurses'! I tried to watch it once, but it was terrible! But the producer asked me to name a babe and I guess that's what she is. She will be starting in episode three. I'm producing episode five, so I have to work with her. But I won't meet her until next month. But I guess shes quite good for the role."
Tell me about working on Killer Condom. Was it a big film in Germany?
"By German standards, it's quite big. The money came from Switzerland, because it's a done by a guy called Irwin C Dietrich, who's the main force, the main money man in the background. He used to do films with Jess Franco and all these sleazy exploitation things, '70s horror movies."
What was HR Giger's involvement with the film?
"The problem with Giger was that he just came too late to the whole project. So we were trying to push him over to the art department, but it was too late also. He did something here and there but his involvement was not a lot."
Was he happy with his credit staying on Killer Condom.
"If I were him, I wouldn't have been happy. But the director Martin Walz told me that after the premiere, he told him that he very much liked the film, even if there was nothing of his in the movie, and that's a good sign, I guess. During the production he was kind of angry and I had the feeling that he was right. Because they mainly did try to cash in on his name, which isn't fair because he's doing great things. For me, it was okay. I met him and I gave him some of my films and he liked them very much. At the end, he also offered me a project, and we were trying to get money for a project for the both of us. It's a concept based on a castration machine that he designed. We built a story around that and we tried to get money for it which didn't work out yet. When I talked to one of the producers from Lexx, there was talk of maybe including this concept in one of the Lexx episodes but I don't want to spoil my own movie."
Is Giger working on Lexx?
"I don't think so. Giger was planned. The plan was that, because I worked with him - he really is an artist, and as an artist he really is not very easy to work with. So the idea was that if Giger is involved I should do one of these episodes. But I think they decided not to use him because they move so fast now that they simply can't put everything in place with him. It would be like in Condom, it wouldn't be the real thing in the end."
He's very annoyed about Species 2 using his name and only using his designs for about eight seconds.
"He should get used to this by now! I think in generally he's just pissed off - and he's right - at how the film industry is dealing with him. But what can you do? He needs to have more impact, more power on a movie. But to have more power on a movie you have to be more bankable, but now he's treated as someone who's not very easy to work with. It's a shame. But all the concepts he's doing, he's not thinking in a money way. He's having some ideas, but most of the time the line producers get heart attacks because its just too expensive. That's also one of the problems with the project we had written. On the one hand it was too extreme, and on the other hand it was too expensive. I haven't spoken to him in quite a while because it's just not happening and I'm always busy with video clips or whatever. And there are these two other projects I would like to do too. I can't even get money for those - and they are cheap! It's just very, very complicated to get money for unusual films."
Would you be better moving to America?
"It's hard to say. I met Quentin Tarantino once at a film festival at Sitges and I gave him the story outline of that Giger project. He seemed to be interested, but I've never heard from him again. But he's busy enough with his own movies. My experience was that in America it's even more difficult to get unusual stuff done because they only care about the profits. I don't care about profits that much. I care about it in a way, because otherwise you can't do it. Doing films is so expensive, it has to be commercial - but people don't treat me like I'm doing commercial movies. If you compare my movies to bigger ones, then a film like Nekromantik is commercially very successful because it made its money back very fast. Not because it was such a big seller, but because it was so cheap!
"So in a certain scene I'm very commercial, but people can't put that into a bigger context, that's the problem. The German producers are not used to trying to get their money back from the rest of the world. They always try to get their money back inside Germany, which is pointless. I didn't make the money for my films in Germany. It all came from the sales to Japan or to Spain or to France. If I had kept on selling my films only in Germany, then I would be dead by now, I think!"
"The Godzilla movies were the first movies I saw, and it always sticks to you. For as long as I can remember, I'm going to cinemas to watch Godzilla movies. In the late '60s I started when I was four or five years old - and it just never stopped. So when I heard that Roland Emmerich - our German Roland Emmerich - is doing a Godzilla movie now, I felt that it was time at least to do a book about those films over here in Germany. Because in Germany there's no literature about science fiction films, there's no literature about Japanese monster movies. The book I've written is mostly about Japanese monster movies, not only Godzilla but also the Gamera movies and so on. It's stuffed with 50 movies and it went down really well. It just came out three weeks ago and I did some promotional screenings with old Godzilla movies in Munich and Berlin and Hamburg. It went pretty well, so I hope at least the old Godzilla fans will grab the book. Maybe we might even get it to other countries."
Are the Godzilla films very popular in Germany?
"It's hard to say. People know who Godzilla is, but they laugh about it. Even the so-called serious film critics don't even bother watching them carefully. So my approach was getting the reputation of Godzilla in a better way out to the people. Because as film history they have so many things to offer that American monster movies don't have. This naive way of approaching the whole thing. They don't pretend to be realistic; they don't care about it. They just care about looking great! That whole concept. As a child of course, you are very attracted to large things that do what they want, because as a kid you are not allowed to do what you want. And that's what you want to do: you want to run around and smash everything. That's, I think, part of the concept why everybody is happy with Godzilla movies. All the metaphorical meaning in Japan is totally different; you really have to keep that in mind if you watch those movies to understand them."
In Germany, the Godzilla films all had strange title, mostly refering to Frankenstein.
"I think one of the reasons is that the Japanese did a film, which the American title was Frankenstein Conquers the World. That's where they really took the Frankenstein monster and put it into a Japanese context. That movie is the only one where Hiroshima actually happens on screen. That film came out quite early in Germany. Afterwards, they just tried to cash in on that Frankenstein name because Godzilla wasn't such a name in the late '60s and early '70s. So they just put 'Frankenstein' on everything - which is embarrassing! So if you have a movie like Godzilla Vs the Smog Monster, which is one of my favourites, in Germany the title translates as 'Frankenstein Vs the Devil-Monsters'. Which is even more strange than the film! That's very bad, but there is lots of good posters and artwork over here, and the book is stuffed with this kind of thing."
Did the 1990s Godzilla films come out in Germany?
"One small distributor was trying to get Godzilla Vs King Ghidorah out in the cinemas, but after two months the distributor went bankrupt. I don't know if that was a good or bad thing! So it was mainly straight to video, far more than you have in Britain. The thing is that after 1993 Toho didn't sell the world rights of the later movies because they were waiting for the American movie to be released, then they can make even more money. That's the idea; they don't want to spoil the market for the American production. Older films like Godzilla Vs the Smog Monster have also disappeared over here. I can still get hold of one 35mm print, and I screened it two weeks ago in East Berlin at the book presentation, but officially it's not available any more. I just got a list of DVDs from the US that are coming out. King Kong Vs Godzilla is announced for May. It's mainly the same thing that they put out in America all the time: Godzilla, King of the Monsters, the Raymond Burr version; Godzilla Vs Mothra, the '64 version; Godzilla's Revenge, Terror of Mechagodzilla and Monster Zero. Which is great, but you have Monster Zero also."
These films have far too many titles.
"That's also one part of the book: a whole film index. The German, British, American and Japanese titles are all in there."
Have the recent Gamera films come out in Germany?
"Only the first one, Guardian of the Universe. But after a while, I just started getting the laserdiscs from Japan. Far more satisfying. And now that DVD is getting further, it will be a new challenge to get those films in better versions. You have standard and widescreen versions, you have production notes, you have remastered sound and picture quality: all those things that are necessary! Warners are doing a great job. If you watch Mars Attacks!, it's really mind-blowing. You have freeze-frames as clear as photos."
website: www.joergbuttgereit.com
Friday, 1 August 2014
interview: Tristan Versluis (2008)
In April 2008 I solicited a half-dozen e-mail answers out of my mate Tristan about his short film I Love You. Was this really two and a half years after our previous chat? Good grief.
What features were you working on immediately before and after (or during!) the production of I Love You?
“Before starting shooting I Love You I had pretty much just finished working on the new film from Clive Barker’s Book of Blood series - the film has the same title - which has been shooting up in Edinburgh. I was providing various prosthetic effects for that.”
What did you learn on Plastic Reality and Pixel that was useful to you on this film?
“I learnt to work with actors more this time round. Also with my crew; I feel I am starting to gain more confidence with my ideas and how to deal with my crew to get the image I am looking for.”
I notice that there's no writing credit on I Love You. Does a film this simple in concept have a script in any conventional sense and, if not, how do you convey what you want to your cast and crew?
“There wasn't a script as such, more of a treatment. It was always so heavy visually that I didn't feel a need to write a full, super-detailed script. I knew my crew trusted my crazy ideas and would go with it despite the lack of a full script. Leslie Simpson and I talked about what the part was and we both felt that it was always going to be a visceral and spontaneous piece of work - drawing from what we could drum up on the day of shoot.”
How closely did you work with Duncan Jarman on the prosthetics?
“Duncan helped apply all the prosthetic work on the film whilst I did the prep work, inbetween making dead people on Clive Barker’s Book of Blood!”
I was impressed with the sound design - what sort of input did you have on that?
“I knew what I wanted from the sound early on; quite basic really, with plenty of ripping flesh sounds to make you feel what he's going through even more. The music was always going to be low key but effective in its atmosphere and tension which Ian Morse my music guy did perfectly.”
Why has I Love You been finished before Pixel, which started first? When will we see Pixel?
“Ha ha... Pixel was shot first, but it is still having the finishing touches done to the CGI effects in it and I just couldn't wait any longer before making another film. I Love You was born from the frustration in me, in needing to get a film out there for people to see. I hope that Pixel is finished soon, before I get too hungry for more and make something else!”
website: http://tristanversluis.tumblr.com
What features were you working on immediately before and after (or during!) the production of I Love You?
“Before starting shooting I Love You I had pretty much just finished working on the new film from Clive Barker’s Book of Blood series - the film has the same title - which has been shooting up in Edinburgh. I was providing various prosthetic effects for that.”
What did you learn on Plastic Reality and Pixel that was useful to you on this film?
“I learnt to work with actors more this time round. Also with my crew; I feel I am starting to gain more confidence with my ideas and how to deal with my crew to get the image I am looking for.”
I notice that there's no writing credit on I Love You. Does a film this simple in concept have a script in any conventional sense and, if not, how do you convey what you want to your cast and crew?
“There wasn't a script as such, more of a treatment. It was always so heavy visually that I didn't feel a need to write a full, super-detailed script. I knew my crew trusted my crazy ideas and would go with it despite the lack of a full script. Leslie Simpson and I talked about what the part was and we both felt that it was always going to be a visceral and spontaneous piece of work - drawing from what we could drum up on the day of shoot.”
How closely did you work with Duncan Jarman on the prosthetics?
“Duncan helped apply all the prosthetic work on the film whilst I did the prep work, inbetween making dead people on Clive Barker’s Book of Blood!”
I was impressed with the sound design - what sort of input did you have on that?
“I knew what I wanted from the sound early on; quite basic really, with plenty of ripping flesh sounds to make you feel what he's going through even more. The music was always going to be low key but effective in its atmosphere and tension which Ian Morse my music guy did perfectly.”
Why has I Love You been finished before Pixel, which started first? When will we see Pixel?
“Ha ha... Pixel was shot first, but it is still having the finishing touches done to the CGI effects in it and I just couldn't wait any longer before making another film. I Love You was born from the frustration in me, in needing to get a film out there for people to see. I hope that Pixel is finished soon, before I get too hungry for more and make something else!”
website: http://tristanversluis.tumblr.com
interview: Tristan Versluis (2005)
My first contact with Tristan Versluis was when I was working for the old East Midlands Arts Board in the late 1990s and the Film Officer showed me an article from the Derby Evening Telegraph about a local young man who was making a name for himself in the field of special effects and make-up. I finally got round to interviewing Tris in October 2005 about his work on Evil Aliens, which was done when he was half of an FX company called Life Creations. (Tris subsequently moved into directing his own short films starting with Plastic Reality. I interviewed him again in 2008.)
How did your company Life Creations get the job to work on Evil Aliens?
“Life Creations got the job of working on Evil Aliens from myself being in contact with Jake West from an early stage. We were originally discussing Razor Blade Smile 2 and how he wanted proper effects guys on board for that to do some cool stuff. Then a treatment ends up in my inbox and it’s this Evil Aliens film. I read the treatment and was like: “Hell... that sounds wicked... and full of effects work!” Straightaway we started discussing gore effects for the film; Jake wanted us to give ideas on gags etc. We then did an exploding head for Jake which was enhanced with CGI (for Shock Movie Massacre) which worked quite well. I sculpted a small maquette for Evil Aliens and that kind of bought the deal, along with being there from the start.”
What sort of brief were you given for the film, in terms of realism, level of gore etc.?
“Jake’s brief for the film, with regards to the gore was: over the top and as full on as we could afford with the budget we had. Jake just wanted us to ram as many tubes and sprays of blood that we had, at each shot. It got to a point where any spare hands on set were handed a pango (device for blood splats). We really did spend every cent we had on putting maximum carnage on camera.”
What was the most difficult and/or most complicated effect in the film?
“The most difficult effect and most risky effect on the film for us was Cat (Jennifer Evans), when she turns into an alien. We decided to go real old school for that effect. Jake wanted the alien’s head to literally burst out of Cat’s own head. So we made this hollow silicone head of Cat, pre-burst, with veins etc. We then took a painted-up head of the alien look, on the end of a pole. Inside the chest and neck area of the prop body we mounted a bag of blood and guts. We pre-cut sections of the outer silicone skin and then just pushed the alien head up, which pushed guts etc. out the mouth and nose and tore open to reveal the alien head. It worked great. It was totally untested due to money and time, but I am so proud of that effect, and with Jake’s fab editing it works a treat.”
What sort of things did the cast have to cope with in terms of make-up, and how did they bear up?
“The cast that had prosthetic make-up on were all so patient and loved the experience. Our key alien - whenever you see an alien get his helmet ripped off, it was him - was a star, considering he couldn't see hardly anything through the oval shaped lenses he wore. I remember one day we were doing a scene when the alien gets smacked in the head by a cricket bat... well, he did get smacked by a cricket bat! Everyone froze, thinking: ‘Oh god, that's our lead alien actor quitting.’ But no, he got up and just kept going. That was the general attitude on set.”
I understand that the mutilated cow which you created was extremely realistic. Can you tell me a bit about how you made that and what it looked/smelled like?
“The mutilated cow we made was so funny. It was made from soft foam, gelatin, fake fur and loads of syrup based blood. The day we were setting up the cow scene was classic. We were given this field to set up the cow and it already had three real cows which were in there. Fine, I thought, what could they do? When we opened the gate holding a (to them) dead cow, they raised their heads and focused very quickly on what was going on. As we walked in carrying the cow, we got about half way to where it needed to be set up and suddenly they started running full steam at us. Not being a expert on cow behaviour, I took this as bad and dropped my rubber cow and ran! The cow was staying in the spot I dropped it for all I cared! What was funny is: the cows at first seemed really saddened and kept walking round it, not touching, really silent but flinching as it moved in the wind. They were so freaked out. But two hours later I came back and they were licking the syrup off it!”
What have you been doing since Evil Aliens?
“Since Evil Aliens, Life Creations has sadly ended, so I have been off freelancing, which has been going really well. Such things as Queen Elizabeth - Virgin Queen, Doctor Who series 1 and 2, Titty Bang Bang, Celebrity Swap, Hex series 2, a feature film called Isolation and various commercials for Barclays, broadband and Guinness.”
website: http://tristanversluis.tumblr.com
How did your company Life Creations get the job to work on Evil Aliens?
“Life Creations got the job of working on Evil Aliens from myself being in contact with Jake West from an early stage. We were originally discussing Razor Blade Smile 2 and how he wanted proper effects guys on board for that to do some cool stuff. Then a treatment ends up in my inbox and it’s this Evil Aliens film. I read the treatment and was like: “Hell... that sounds wicked... and full of effects work!” Straightaway we started discussing gore effects for the film; Jake wanted us to give ideas on gags etc. We then did an exploding head for Jake which was enhanced with CGI (for Shock Movie Massacre) which worked quite well. I sculpted a small maquette for Evil Aliens and that kind of bought the deal, along with being there from the start.”
What sort of brief were you given for the film, in terms of realism, level of gore etc.?
“Jake’s brief for the film, with regards to the gore was: over the top and as full on as we could afford with the budget we had. Jake just wanted us to ram as many tubes and sprays of blood that we had, at each shot. It got to a point where any spare hands on set were handed a pango (device for blood splats). We really did spend every cent we had on putting maximum carnage on camera.”
What was the most difficult and/or most complicated effect in the film?
“The most difficult effect and most risky effect on the film for us was Cat (Jennifer Evans), when she turns into an alien. We decided to go real old school for that effect. Jake wanted the alien’s head to literally burst out of Cat’s own head. So we made this hollow silicone head of Cat, pre-burst, with veins etc. We then took a painted-up head of the alien look, on the end of a pole. Inside the chest and neck area of the prop body we mounted a bag of blood and guts. We pre-cut sections of the outer silicone skin and then just pushed the alien head up, which pushed guts etc. out the mouth and nose and tore open to reveal the alien head. It worked great. It was totally untested due to money and time, but I am so proud of that effect, and with Jake’s fab editing it works a treat.”
What sort of things did the cast have to cope with in terms of make-up, and how did they bear up?
“The cast that had prosthetic make-up on were all so patient and loved the experience. Our key alien - whenever you see an alien get his helmet ripped off, it was him - was a star, considering he couldn't see hardly anything through the oval shaped lenses he wore. I remember one day we were doing a scene when the alien gets smacked in the head by a cricket bat... well, he did get smacked by a cricket bat! Everyone froze, thinking: ‘Oh god, that's our lead alien actor quitting.’ But no, he got up and just kept going. That was the general attitude on set.”
I understand that the mutilated cow which you created was extremely realistic. Can you tell me a bit about how you made that and what it looked/smelled like?
“The mutilated cow we made was so funny. It was made from soft foam, gelatin, fake fur and loads of syrup based blood. The day we were setting up the cow scene was classic. We were given this field to set up the cow and it already had three real cows which were in there. Fine, I thought, what could they do? When we opened the gate holding a (to them) dead cow, they raised their heads and focused very quickly on what was going on. As we walked in carrying the cow, we got about half way to where it needed to be set up and suddenly they started running full steam at us. Not being a expert on cow behaviour, I took this as bad and dropped my rubber cow and ran! The cow was staying in the spot I dropped it for all I cared! What was funny is: the cows at first seemed really saddened and kept walking round it, not touching, really silent but flinching as it moved in the wind. They were so freaked out. But two hours later I came back and they were licking the syrup off it!”
What have you been doing since Evil Aliens?
“Since Evil Aliens, Life Creations has sadly ended, so I have been off freelancing, which has been going really well. Such things as Queen Elizabeth - Virgin Queen, Doctor Who series 1 and 2, Titty Bang Bang, Celebrity Swap, Hex series 2, a feature film called Isolation and various commercials for Barclays, broadband and Guinness.”
website: http://tristanversluis.tumblr.com
Tuesday, 20 May 2014
interview: Gary J Tunnicliffe
Legendary effects bloke Gary Tunnicliffe created the monster suit for the brace of Pumpkinhead sequels which were filmed in Romania in 2006. Although he didn’t visit Bucharest himself (leaving that to Mike Regan and co) I was able to interview Gary by phone a few weeks later in June 2006. (Picture shows Gary (centre) with two of the on-set Pumpkinhead team, Blake Bolger and Mike Regan.)
Are you in LA at the moment?
"Yes, back in Los Angeles. It’s kind of crazy. We’ve been doing reshoots on Pulse. It’s been a manic couple of weeks. We’ve just moved to a bigger and better workshop so everything’s been kind of manic but hopefully it’ll calm down in the next few weeks and I can get my breath again. On top of which, Pumpkinhead was probably one of the most nightmare-ish pre-productions I’ve ever had. I went in with my eyes wide open and knew what was going on."
How were you approached about this?
"Actually I was first mentioned through Alwyn Kushner who is Donald Kushner’s daughter. I’ve done a lot of work with Alwyn over the years and she recommended me. I get a call from Karri O’Reilly and obviously I already had a relationship with Donald Kushner so I was asked if I was interested in being on Pumpkinhead. Obviously the design factor was already there but the budget was very tight and also the pre-production schedule was nightmare-ish due to the shooting schedule. They had to shoot in the first week of March and I got the call at the end of February. The actual production time we had - including the nightmare of trying to get things to Romania which is at least a ten-day add-on - basically gave us four weeks to make Pumpkinhead."
Given that the basic design already existed, how long would you have liked to have to create the suit?
"It would have been nice to have two months. The reason that I took the job is it was a no-profit project. I had just finished on some work as it was and we were kind of winding down, we were just moving workshops. The last thing I needed to do was to get involved in a pretty intensive creature suit. But both of the directors were awesome and also it was a chance to get my fingers into a design that everybody loves.
“Stan Winston released a full foam version of the suit; it would have been the easiest thing in the world to get one of those, mould it and run the pieces out of that. But I really wasn’t interested in doing that. I really wanted to try and basically take the 1988, brilliantly executed design - but obviously things have got better now, sculpting has got better over the years - and really try and push some of the form to it. Add a bit of Tunnicliffism to it, if you like. At a cost to myself, really. We made sure that we hired some really awesome sculptors and I managed to get the bits into it I wanted. Jake West wanted to change the design a bit, he wanted to lose the big bones on the shoulders and he didn’t want any teeth on the exterior of the mouth. He had actually done a design himself which was very Alien and I was frightened that it was getting very bony, very spiny and it wouldn’t feel like the original Pumpkinhead. Whereas my design interest was to make something a bit leaner which had a bit more musculature.
“I wanted to go back in and really refine some of the form on it. If you look at Stan’s original it’s a bit lumpy and bumpy in places. It’s brilliant, it’s wonderful but the body is a bit lumpy and bumpy. I wanted to do that and I really wanted to refine the hands and show the bone structure of the hand. And that’s what I think we were able to do. We kept the essence of Pumpkinhead. You saw it; hopefully when you saw it you didn’t go, ‘What the hell’s that?’ I think in retrospect I would have liked to make it a bit wider, a bit bigger in places but we were working on the form of our puppeteer. If you get too big it tends to wrinkle and buckle in a very weird way so we tried to make it more lean, more sleek."
Was it daunting to work on something that’s not only popular but sufficiently old that everyone thinks they know about it?
"Yes, it was daunting without a doubt. As I said to the producer at the time: I know the first film was a low-budget movie but it had the full weight of Stan Winston Productions behind it. Here was a Stan Winston production making Stan’s creature. So I knew that at the very least I was on a slippery slope straight away. I was damned if I do, damned if I don’t to be honest. The best thing I could ever hope for was for people to look at it and go, ‘Oh yes, that looks like Pumpkinhead.’ My mantra was always that if Stan Winston saw it he would go, ‘That looks pretty cool.’, not ‘Oh my God, what have they done to it?’ or ‘Eugh, what a mess.’ Jake West wanted to make Pumpkinhead very dark and I pulled him back a bit and said, ‘Look, you’re going to be shooting at night. You still need that light colour.’ But I didn’t want to go with a yellow Pumpkinhead, that kind of dead flesh colour, so we warmed him up a bit and made him more earth tan."
Did Mike Hurst have any input?
"I think Mike was very understanding of where we were at and how cramped we were. He was very trusting because he said, ‘Whatever you can give me, I know that you guys are under the gun as it is. I’ll be happy. I trust you - go for it.’ And Karri O’Reilly and the producers were great because they said, ‘We know for a fact that anything we can get beyond Pumpkinhead is a gift so whatever you can do in the way of blood and gore and death and horror it’s purely a bonus.’ They were wonderful to work with. It’s hard enough when you’re on a low budget production if you’re being treated badly or you’re waiting for payments. Everybody seemed to know that we were struggling and didn’t have any time to waste. We were treated very, very kindly by everybody. It was wonderful, one of the best productions I’ve ever had for that."
How do you design something which already exists? Did you make a maquette?
"It was great actually because, very luckily, there’s been lots of maquettes done over the years. There have been so many wonderful model kits and the one that was used as the basis for ours was one which I thought had a great pose and a great form to it. It elongated some of the form for the original. I looked at the original maquette Stan had done which was released by Sideshow and again I thought it looked a bit lumpy in places. I wanted to try and streamline it a little bit so I found this other kit and put it into Photoshop, did some additions on that and showed those to Jake West. He said yes but by that point, because we were on such a time constraint, by the time I was showing designs to Jake we were already sculpting!
“It wasn’t like: here’s the design, what do you think, what would you do differently, let’s get your input. It was: here’s the design and just to let you know it’s being moulded tomorrow. This is it, this is what you’re going to get. It was like a menu of ‘spam and eggs, spam and eggs, spam and eggs, spam and eggs’: I hope you like spam and eggs because that’s what we’re cooking right now. ‘Yes, we want spam and eggs.’ Well, it’s a good job! Luckily, everyone liked spam and eggs. The menu special was what everyone wanted."
What is the suit made from?
"It’s all traditional, good old-fashioned foam latex. In reality, it’s probably almost identical to what Stan had done for the first film. It’s a foam latex suit. The only thing we did differently on the head was, instead of standard one-lid eye blink we did a double-lid blink. So both lids came up to meet each other. It was a nightmare for Mike Regan who was doing the mechs because I said to him very early on, ‘I don’t want it to be a standard blink.’ He looked at me and was like, ‘We don’t have time,’ and I was like, ‘I know, but I don’t want a standard blink.’ ‘Yes, but we don’t have time.’ ‘I know, I understand that we don’t have time. But we are going to do a double blink.’ ‘Oh, okay.’ I did a little design and he was like, ‘Yes, I guess so.’ It meant a few extra late nights for him but I think it makes a difference when you see the creature blinking.
“Luckily the design is such that it allows things which require a lot of mechanisms. Because Pumpkinhead has got white eyes he just has to look around so that negated the mechs in the eyes. So we just went with a very traditional jaw, lip snarls, brow and then we enhanced the blink a little bit. But it’s a foam latex suit, a foam latex skin head with a fibreglass underskull and all those good old-fashioned techniques that work so well. We didn’t have the luxury of trying to reinvent the wheel. Nor would I want to. It worked perfectly well for what it was. Silicone skins weren’t needed for this, we just needed it to last the duration."
Did you make two suits?
"You always say that you make a hero and a stunt but what really happens, the truth is they’re both hero suits. When one gets the shit beaten out of it, it’s the stunt. I had the producers saying, ‘Well, Pumpkinhead only shoots for 19 days out of the 36,’ - and of course Pumpkinhead shot for virtually every day of the shoot. Full credit to Mike, Mitch and Blake and the Romanian crew, Ionel Popa and Daniel Parvalescu, who I know were basically every day having to repaint and patch and fill and all those nightmares of trying to keep the suit the best it could be. I’m sure at the end of the film there are going to be a few shots where it probably looks a little bit worn down. But luckily Pumpkinhead is a demon who has been born from the earth so a little bit of slime here, a little bit of blood there - and he looks as good as new!
“The thing for us was: as long as he looks good from the torso up - good chest, good head, good hands - I’m happy. I always know that, due to the design of the leg, in the first film whenever Pumpkinhead is seen in a wide shot, he’s on wires. They made it so that Tom who was wearing the suit in the first film was suspended so they could make the legs a lot sleeker. We had to make a stilt for our leg. You’ll always have a problem there because you have to deal with the shape of a human foot and the actor who was wearing the suit had big feet! I always look at him in wide shots and think he looks a bit off but that’s just the nature of the design unfortunately."
Were you responsible for Haggis’ make-up?
"Yes, we did Haggis’ make-up. That was insane. The turnaround on that make-up was absolutely insane. I think we turned around that make-up in three days and that was for a four- or five-piece make-up. We didn’t even have time to do a cowl. I think we did basically a large brow-piece that blended off and then a nose. Luckily Neill Gorton out of the UK did the live cast. They cast Lynne Verrall literally a few days before she was shooting. We got the life cast, I blocked it out and Mark Maitre worked overnight on it. I did blocking on the pieces, Mark took the pieces and worked on them through the night, brought them back in the morning and then we started the moulds. Then we ran out the pieces we needed so Mitch had something to apply. Mitch took the first three sets of appliances with him on as excess baggage.
“I really wanted it to look like the first Haggis but it just wasn’t possible. The girl who wore the first make-up was very long and had a huge neck. They had done a full cowl and we just hadn’t the time or the resources to do that. So what we basically had to create was a hag make-up, a witch bitch make-up. The only thing I was amazed by, nothing to do with the make-up, was when I heard Lynn’s voice. I’ve never heard such an incredible recreation of the original character in my life. It was fantastic, she sounded just like her. When I saw the trailer I thought she’d been dubbed. I thought they’d taken lines from the first film. I was just blown away. Blake and Mike and Mitch said no, Lynn was really dedicated to try and recapture that and listened to the first film over and over and over again. She was wonderful and Mitch had a good rapport with her. The great thing about that is: prosthetic make-up is only ten per cent of the character, it doesn’t work if it’s on somebody who isn’t into it or is no good. It’s like Pinhead - so much of that is Doug Bradley. I think we were able to pull off something very, very fast and luckily Lynn’s dedication to the character brought it to life so a total tip of the hat to her. After that of course, we had to do a whole bunch of transformation stuff."
On Lance Henriksen?
"Yes, that was basically me. Over a weekend I made a whole bunch of mechanisms. We did a change around which was great because we were able to basically use the technique from An American Werewolf in London but use silicone which is much more stretchy and more realistic. So I made one of those and I made a chest section which would suck in and I made a face plate with a change-over mech underneath it. They were literally all done over a weekend; it was a crazy, crazy weekend. I even drew boards for that and spoke to Jake about it. I said, ‘Look, as long as you keep cutting away to flames flickering and shadows on the wall, I’ll give you a couple of elements.’
“We made a bladder. It was literally a case of any chance we got to make anything else: ‘You’ve got five minutes, make me some bladders.’ ‘You’ve got five minutes, start making some latex sheets and I’ll wrap a skeleton inside them to make the Lance Henriksen husk.’ The body I made on the table one day by taking a skeleton and binding it in latex. All those years of doing Dracula 2000 and things like that prepare you well for making corpses. I had a wonderful, wonderful crew. Everyone got involved. I was in the fortunate situation that I could throw jobs at crew members and everyone would get behind it. And people were keen to work on it too because it was Pumpkinhead. They were excited by working on Pumpkinhead. The first day we tested Pumpkinhead - got the actor on a table, dressed him in the suit and put the head on - it was great to see everyone’s eyes light up."
Did you find a real enthusiasm and excitement about Pumpkinhead because it’s something special, not just another monster?
"We were excited too, you know. Pumpkinhead is an awesome creature and it's a good, solid, little horror film. We went back and watched it again. I think everyone who watches it goes: ‘Wow, Stan Winston could have just gone off and had a nice little career as a horror movie director.’ I think at the heart of it is a very cool creature. If there’s a credit missing from this film, whether it’s Stan or some of his guys, it’s whoever did that original design. That’s where a good creature can endure. Then I think you’ve got a couple of directors who understand action and pacing. Certainly from the trailer I saw, I was very excited."
Do you know Stan Winston? Does he know about these films?
"I have no idea at all. I don’t know Stan well enough to give him a call and say, ‘Stan! We’ve got your creature!’ I’m sure if it was a film I’d directed I’d be curious to see what someone else had done with it. Obviously it’s more of a sequel than the second film, this follows on from the events of the first film. I’m sure there’ll be some nitpicking from the guys when they see my bastardised version of their wonderful creature but I hope that they’ll look at it and realise the budget restraints and say, ‘That’s a pretty good job, actually.’ It’s a different Pumpkinhead but at the same time it’s got the core of it.
“Luckily I had some great sculptors, people like Dave Grasso and Tully Sumners who had just worked on Silent Hill. Richard Addison-Wood, the WETA workshop supervisor on Lord of the Rings and King Kong, did the eyes for me in New Zealand. Because he is a Pumpkinhead fan so I wanted to get him involved. I tried to pull in a few favours from people. One of the painters from Spider-Man 3 came over and helped me for a few days. It was great to be able to call people and say, ‘Hey, do you want to come and work a few days on Pumpkinhead?’ Instantly people were, ‘Yeah, that would be cool!’ They would come in and see the head and go, ‘That looks really cool!’ Even after all the crazy hours - and it was crazy hours, every day was a very, very long day and no weekends for that four-week blast that we had. But the first day that we were able to get the suit on, a couple of the producers came over. We turned off the lights in the shop and we made some cookies and we lit him from underneath and we brought him to life. Everybody, myself included, was: ‘Wow, look - it’s Pumpkinhead!’"
If these do okay and they make V and VI, would you be up for those?
"God, yes. I’m up for anything. I’m a horror film whore I am, I don’t care. I’m up for Pumpkinhead XXVIII! It would be good if we got a few more dollars. I’m sure the producers would be: ‘Well, you’ve got the moulds.’ Yes, absolutely. Certainly if it was the same production team as before. They were so courteous and so wonderful to work with. You can only dream of having that kind of support. And the same from Jake West and Mike Hurst. To get phone calls from your director from another country the day after Pumpkinhead shot to just say, ‘Thank you so much. It looks amazing. We’re just blown away that there’s a creature here I can film.’ To get e-mails after the show saying, ‘Thank you again. It looks awesome. We’re just jazzed with the creature and your guys were awesome.’ I know that Mike and Blake and Mitch were put through the wringer and were having to come up with a lot of stuff on the spot so credit to them for backing me up. Unfortunately I couldn’t get out to Romania. I had to send them because I was dealing with Pulse reshoots and stuff like that. But I was getting phone calls nightly from Karri O’Reilly and from Mitch and Mike, post-being drenched in blood or post-being rained on."
There was some pretty unpleasant stuff out there.
"I know. That’s why I sent them! We keeping hope for that horror film, a Caribbean zombie movie or Caribbean werewolf movie where the visitors to a beautiful Caribbean resort are terrorised by one zombie. I invite any writer out there to write that because I would happily do that. Scuba divers who get terrorised by a zombie, that would be great because I could dive all day.”
Website: www.garyjtunnicliffe.com
Are you in LA at the moment?
"Yes, back in Los Angeles. It’s kind of crazy. We’ve been doing reshoots on Pulse. It’s been a manic couple of weeks. We’ve just moved to a bigger and better workshop so everything’s been kind of manic but hopefully it’ll calm down in the next few weeks and I can get my breath again. On top of which, Pumpkinhead was probably one of the most nightmare-ish pre-productions I’ve ever had. I went in with my eyes wide open and knew what was going on."
How were you approached about this?
"Actually I was first mentioned through Alwyn Kushner who is Donald Kushner’s daughter. I’ve done a lot of work with Alwyn over the years and she recommended me. I get a call from Karri O’Reilly and obviously I already had a relationship with Donald Kushner so I was asked if I was interested in being on Pumpkinhead. Obviously the design factor was already there but the budget was very tight and also the pre-production schedule was nightmare-ish due to the shooting schedule. They had to shoot in the first week of March and I got the call at the end of February. The actual production time we had - including the nightmare of trying to get things to Romania which is at least a ten-day add-on - basically gave us four weeks to make Pumpkinhead."
Given that the basic design already existed, how long would you have liked to have to create the suit?
"It would have been nice to have two months. The reason that I took the job is it was a no-profit project. I had just finished on some work as it was and we were kind of winding down, we were just moving workshops. The last thing I needed to do was to get involved in a pretty intensive creature suit. But both of the directors were awesome and also it was a chance to get my fingers into a design that everybody loves.
“Stan Winston released a full foam version of the suit; it would have been the easiest thing in the world to get one of those, mould it and run the pieces out of that. But I really wasn’t interested in doing that. I really wanted to try and basically take the 1988, brilliantly executed design - but obviously things have got better now, sculpting has got better over the years - and really try and push some of the form to it. Add a bit of Tunnicliffism to it, if you like. At a cost to myself, really. We made sure that we hired some really awesome sculptors and I managed to get the bits into it I wanted. Jake West wanted to change the design a bit, he wanted to lose the big bones on the shoulders and he didn’t want any teeth on the exterior of the mouth. He had actually done a design himself which was very Alien and I was frightened that it was getting very bony, very spiny and it wouldn’t feel like the original Pumpkinhead. Whereas my design interest was to make something a bit leaner which had a bit more musculature.
“I wanted to go back in and really refine some of the form on it. If you look at Stan’s original it’s a bit lumpy and bumpy in places. It’s brilliant, it’s wonderful but the body is a bit lumpy and bumpy. I wanted to do that and I really wanted to refine the hands and show the bone structure of the hand. And that’s what I think we were able to do. We kept the essence of Pumpkinhead. You saw it; hopefully when you saw it you didn’t go, ‘What the hell’s that?’ I think in retrospect I would have liked to make it a bit wider, a bit bigger in places but we were working on the form of our puppeteer. If you get too big it tends to wrinkle and buckle in a very weird way so we tried to make it more lean, more sleek."
Was it daunting to work on something that’s not only popular but sufficiently old that everyone thinks they know about it?
"Yes, it was daunting without a doubt. As I said to the producer at the time: I know the first film was a low-budget movie but it had the full weight of Stan Winston Productions behind it. Here was a Stan Winston production making Stan’s creature. So I knew that at the very least I was on a slippery slope straight away. I was damned if I do, damned if I don’t to be honest. The best thing I could ever hope for was for people to look at it and go, ‘Oh yes, that looks like Pumpkinhead.’ My mantra was always that if Stan Winston saw it he would go, ‘That looks pretty cool.’, not ‘Oh my God, what have they done to it?’ or ‘Eugh, what a mess.’ Jake West wanted to make Pumpkinhead very dark and I pulled him back a bit and said, ‘Look, you’re going to be shooting at night. You still need that light colour.’ But I didn’t want to go with a yellow Pumpkinhead, that kind of dead flesh colour, so we warmed him up a bit and made him more earth tan."
Did Mike Hurst have any input?
"I think Mike was very understanding of where we were at and how cramped we were. He was very trusting because he said, ‘Whatever you can give me, I know that you guys are under the gun as it is. I’ll be happy. I trust you - go for it.’ And Karri O’Reilly and the producers were great because they said, ‘We know for a fact that anything we can get beyond Pumpkinhead is a gift so whatever you can do in the way of blood and gore and death and horror it’s purely a bonus.’ They were wonderful to work with. It’s hard enough when you’re on a low budget production if you’re being treated badly or you’re waiting for payments. Everybody seemed to know that we were struggling and didn’t have any time to waste. We were treated very, very kindly by everybody. It was wonderful, one of the best productions I’ve ever had for that."
How do you design something which already exists? Did you make a maquette?
"It was great actually because, very luckily, there’s been lots of maquettes done over the years. There have been so many wonderful model kits and the one that was used as the basis for ours was one which I thought had a great pose and a great form to it. It elongated some of the form for the original. I looked at the original maquette Stan had done which was released by Sideshow and again I thought it looked a bit lumpy in places. I wanted to try and streamline it a little bit so I found this other kit and put it into Photoshop, did some additions on that and showed those to Jake West. He said yes but by that point, because we were on such a time constraint, by the time I was showing designs to Jake we were already sculpting!
“It wasn’t like: here’s the design, what do you think, what would you do differently, let’s get your input. It was: here’s the design and just to let you know it’s being moulded tomorrow. This is it, this is what you’re going to get. It was like a menu of ‘spam and eggs, spam and eggs, spam and eggs, spam and eggs’: I hope you like spam and eggs because that’s what we’re cooking right now. ‘Yes, we want spam and eggs.’ Well, it’s a good job! Luckily, everyone liked spam and eggs. The menu special was what everyone wanted."
What is the suit made from?
"It’s all traditional, good old-fashioned foam latex. In reality, it’s probably almost identical to what Stan had done for the first film. It’s a foam latex suit. The only thing we did differently on the head was, instead of standard one-lid eye blink we did a double-lid blink. So both lids came up to meet each other. It was a nightmare for Mike Regan who was doing the mechs because I said to him very early on, ‘I don’t want it to be a standard blink.’ He looked at me and was like, ‘We don’t have time,’ and I was like, ‘I know, but I don’t want a standard blink.’ ‘Yes, but we don’t have time.’ ‘I know, I understand that we don’t have time. But we are going to do a double blink.’ ‘Oh, okay.’ I did a little design and he was like, ‘Yes, I guess so.’ It meant a few extra late nights for him but I think it makes a difference when you see the creature blinking.
“Luckily the design is such that it allows things which require a lot of mechanisms. Because Pumpkinhead has got white eyes he just has to look around so that negated the mechs in the eyes. So we just went with a very traditional jaw, lip snarls, brow and then we enhanced the blink a little bit. But it’s a foam latex suit, a foam latex skin head with a fibreglass underskull and all those good old-fashioned techniques that work so well. We didn’t have the luxury of trying to reinvent the wheel. Nor would I want to. It worked perfectly well for what it was. Silicone skins weren’t needed for this, we just needed it to last the duration."
Did you make two suits?
"You always say that you make a hero and a stunt but what really happens, the truth is they’re both hero suits. When one gets the shit beaten out of it, it’s the stunt. I had the producers saying, ‘Well, Pumpkinhead only shoots for 19 days out of the 36,’ - and of course Pumpkinhead shot for virtually every day of the shoot. Full credit to Mike, Mitch and Blake and the Romanian crew, Ionel Popa and Daniel Parvalescu, who I know were basically every day having to repaint and patch and fill and all those nightmares of trying to keep the suit the best it could be. I’m sure at the end of the film there are going to be a few shots where it probably looks a little bit worn down. But luckily Pumpkinhead is a demon who has been born from the earth so a little bit of slime here, a little bit of blood there - and he looks as good as new!
“The thing for us was: as long as he looks good from the torso up - good chest, good head, good hands - I’m happy. I always know that, due to the design of the leg, in the first film whenever Pumpkinhead is seen in a wide shot, he’s on wires. They made it so that Tom who was wearing the suit in the first film was suspended so they could make the legs a lot sleeker. We had to make a stilt for our leg. You’ll always have a problem there because you have to deal with the shape of a human foot and the actor who was wearing the suit had big feet! I always look at him in wide shots and think he looks a bit off but that’s just the nature of the design unfortunately."
Were you responsible for Haggis’ make-up?
"Yes, we did Haggis’ make-up. That was insane. The turnaround on that make-up was absolutely insane. I think we turned around that make-up in three days and that was for a four- or five-piece make-up. We didn’t even have time to do a cowl. I think we did basically a large brow-piece that blended off and then a nose. Luckily Neill Gorton out of the UK did the live cast. They cast Lynne Verrall literally a few days before she was shooting. We got the life cast, I blocked it out and Mark Maitre worked overnight on it. I did blocking on the pieces, Mark took the pieces and worked on them through the night, brought them back in the morning and then we started the moulds. Then we ran out the pieces we needed so Mitch had something to apply. Mitch took the first three sets of appliances with him on as excess baggage.
“I really wanted it to look like the first Haggis but it just wasn’t possible. The girl who wore the first make-up was very long and had a huge neck. They had done a full cowl and we just hadn’t the time or the resources to do that. So what we basically had to create was a hag make-up, a witch bitch make-up. The only thing I was amazed by, nothing to do with the make-up, was when I heard Lynn’s voice. I’ve never heard such an incredible recreation of the original character in my life. It was fantastic, she sounded just like her. When I saw the trailer I thought she’d been dubbed. I thought they’d taken lines from the first film. I was just blown away. Blake and Mike and Mitch said no, Lynn was really dedicated to try and recapture that and listened to the first film over and over and over again. She was wonderful and Mitch had a good rapport with her. The great thing about that is: prosthetic make-up is only ten per cent of the character, it doesn’t work if it’s on somebody who isn’t into it or is no good. It’s like Pinhead - so much of that is Doug Bradley. I think we were able to pull off something very, very fast and luckily Lynn’s dedication to the character brought it to life so a total tip of the hat to her. After that of course, we had to do a whole bunch of transformation stuff."
On Lance Henriksen?
"Yes, that was basically me. Over a weekend I made a whole bunch of mechanisms. We did a change around which was great because we were able to basically use the technique from An American Werewolf in London but use silicone which is much more stretchy and more realistic. So I made one of those and I made a chest section which would suck in and I made a face plate with a change-over mech underneath it. They were literally all done over a weekend; it was a crazy, crazy weekend. I even drew boards for that and spoke to Jake about it. I said, ‘Look, as long as you keep cutting away to flames flickering and shadows on the wall, I’ll give you a couple of elements.’
“We made a bladder. It was literally a case of any chance we got to make anything else: ‘You’ve got five minutes, make me some bladders.’ ‘You’ve got five minutes, start making some latex sheets and I’ll wrap a skeleton inside them to make the Lance Henriksen husk.’ The body I made on the table one day by taking a skeleton and binding it in latex. All those years of doing Dracula 2000 and things like that prepare you well for making corpses. I had a wonderful, wonderful crew. Everyone got involved. I was in the fortunate situation that I could throw jobs at crew members and everyone would get behind it. And people were keen to work on it too because it was Pumpkinhead. They were excited by working on Pumpkinhead. The first day we tested Pumpkinhead - got the actor on a table, dressed him in the suit and put the head on - it was great to see everyone’s eyes light up."
Did you find a real enthusiasm and excitement about Pumpkinhead because it’s something special, not just another monster?
"We were excited too, you know. Pumpkinhead is an awesome creature and it's a good, solid, little horror film. We went back and watched it again. I think everyone who watches it goes: ‘Wow, Stan Winston could have just gone off and had a nice little career as a horror movie director.’ I think at the heart of it is a very cool creature. If there’s a credit missing from this film, whether it’s Stan or some of his guys, it’s whoever did that original design. That’s where a good creature can endure. Then I think you’ve got a couple of directors who understand action and pacing. Certainly from the trailer I saw, I was very excited."
Do you know Stan Winston? Does he know about these films?
"I have no idea at all. I don’t know Stan well enough to give him a call and say, ‘Stan! We’ve got your creature!’ I’m sure if it was a film I’d directed I’d be curious to see what someone else had done with it. Obviously it’s more of a sequel than the second film, this follows on from the events of the first film. I’m sure there’ll be some nitpicking from the guys when they see my bastardised version of their wonderful creature but I hope that they’ll look at it and realise the budget restraints and say, ‘That’s a pretty good job, actually.’ It’s a different Pumpkinhead but at the same time it’s got the core of it.
“Luckily I had some great sculptors, people like Dave Grasso and Tully Sumners who had just worked on Silent Hill. Richard Addison-Wood, the WETA workshop supervisor on Lord of the Rings and King Kong, did the eyes for me in New Zealand. Because he is a Pumpkinhead fan so I wanted to get him involved. I tried to pull in a few favours from people. One of the painters from Spider-Man 3 came over and helped me for a few days. It was great to be able to call people and say, ‘Hey, do you want to come and work a few days on Pumpkinhead?’ Instantly people were, ‘Yeah, that would be cool!’ They would come in and see the head and go, ‘That looks really cool!’ Even after all the crazy hours - and it was crazy hours, every day was a very, very long day and no weekends for that four-week blast that we had. But the first day that we were able to get the suit on, a couple of the producers came over. We turned off the lights in the shop and we made some cookies and we lit him from underneath and we brought him to life. Everybody, myself included, was: ‘Wow, look - it’s Pumpkinhead!’"
 |
| Who's that handsome devil? |
"God, yes. I’m up for anything. I’m a horror film whore I am, I don’t care. I’m up for Pumpkinhead XXVIII! It would be good if we got a few more dollars. I’m sure the producers would be: ‘Well, you’ve got the moulds.’ Yes, absolutely. Certainly if it was the same production team as before. They were so courteous and so wonderful to work with. You can only dream of having that kind of support. And the same from Jake West and Mike Hurst. To get phone calls from your director from another country the day after Pumpkinhead shot to just say, ‘Thank you so much. It looks amazing. We’re just blown away that there’s a creature here I can film.’ To get e-mails after the show saying, ‘Thank you again. It looks awesome. We’re just jazzed with the creature and your guys were awesome.’ I know that Mike and Blake and Mitch were put through the wringer and were having to come up with a lot of stuff on the spot so credit to them for backing me up. Unfortunately I couldn’t get out to Romania. I had to send them because I was dealing with Pulse reshoots and stuff like that. But I was getting phone calls nightly from Karri O’Reilly and from Mitch and Mike, post-being drenched in blood or post-being rained on."
There was some pretty unpleasant stuff out there.
"I know. That’s why I sent them! We keeping hope for that horror film, a Caribbean zombie movie or Caribbean werewolf movie where the visitors to a beautiful Caribbean resort are terrorised by one zombie. I invite any writer out there to write that because I would happily do that. Scuba divers who get terrorised by a zombie, that would be great because I could dive all day.”
Website: www.garyjtunnicliffe.com
Saturday, 5 April 2014
interview: Mark Zarate
Mark Zarate was Visual Effects Supervisor on Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. I interviewed him by phone on 22nd February 1996 for a big Lois and Clark feature in SFX. Tragically, Mark passed away in September 1998, aged only 39, from complications which arose during an operation to treat appendicitis
What does your role as Visual Effects Supervisor actually entail?
“I'm in charge of co-ordinating different departments: pyrotechnics, practical effects, wardrobe, art department, storyboards. Then I supervise it all through post-production. I'm also a 2nd unit director so I do a lot of green screen work. I work with effects editors and compositors.”
Although a show like this needs effects to work, they seem to be secondary to the characters and their relationships. How does the production team balance the two key aspects of the show?
“I think it's beneficial that it's a character-driven show, so there are no gratuitous effects. The effects are there to enhance the Superman/Clark character. They also appeal to a younger audience. I try to let the effects live within the environment of the show. Stylised is the word I use for our effects. We always bear in mind that this is a comic book genre. We pick bright, wild colours for things. We try to stay true to the comic book nature of the original.
“For example, we add a blue cast to Superman's superbreath. Originally we had quite realistic looking breath, but it was just kind of grey and uninteresting, so we gave it a slight blue cast. For his laser eyes we photographed real lasers, but they looked too real, so we pumped up the red chroma on them and made them look more like we wanted them.
What did you do before working on Lois and Clark?
“This is my second season. I joined after the first season. Before this I did mostly commercials. I did big-screen effects for Michael Jackson's Dangerous tour and Paul McCartney's world tour and a couple of music videos. I worked on Shocker for Wes Craven and did some work on Total Recall. I also designed the titles for the Sharon Stone movie Basic Instinct.”
What differences do you find in working on a weekly series rather than a one-off movie or commercial?
“I really enjoy working on a regular series. It allows you to develop the effects further, and give them co-ordination. A commercial is really a one-trick pony. But the more times you see an effect, the more boring it becomes. We are able to put in lots of neat little gags, on things like the various gadgets that the villains come up with.
“Obviously we have budgetary and time constraints. The schedules are pretty hectic. Sometimes the writers do come up with ideas that we really can't do on the show and I say well that's great, but that's really going to have to wait until we do Lois and Clark: The Feature.”
How many effects do you have in an average episode, and how many people do you have in the effects team?
“The visual effects crew - including editors, supervisors and so on - all told there are about a dozen of us. There are about 30-35 visual effects per episode. But on 'Virtually Destroyed', which is the episode that Dean Cain wrote, there were 97 separate effects that we had to do in eleven days. So we got some freelancers in, and worked hard, and fortunately they tripled the budget for that one.
“It's very much a team effort on this show. We, the visual effects team, could not achieve what we do without the co-operation and smooth running of the other departments. It's unusual for me, coming from commercials, to work with the same team for so long. I really think I'm going to miss the atmosphere of this show when it ends.”
Were you responsible for the terrific time machine in the ‘Tempus Fugitive’ episode?
“Jim Paul designed the time machine. We wanted to go for that real HG Wells/Jules Verne look, but use 21st century effects for its appearance and disappearance - actually give it some glow and some effects rather than just have it fade away.”
How do the cast cope with some of the physical requirements of the special effects sequences?
“I'm a big guy, and I've gotten into some of the rigs that we've worked with to try them out and see what they feel like, and let me tell you, it was less than pleasant. The cast are great about the effects. We put them on platforms or hang them from wires. None of that feels comfortable, but they're all troupers.
“Obviously, Dean has to work with most of the effects, but he's in great shape, he really is. As for Teri, well Lois gets into all sort of precarious positions, trapped on ledges or falling out of helicopters or whatever. But they're really good, and they're always in a harness so there's no danger.”
I can imagine there might be a bit of competition to get the task of strapping Teri Hatcher into her safety harness. Do you use your seniority to claim that job?
“No, I don't get to put the harness on Teri. I put my name in the hat but I didn't get picked. I wish it was me, but no, we have a couple of people whose job is to put on the harnesses and check that they're properly secured.”
What does your role as Visual Effects Supervisor actually entail?
“I'm in charge of co-ordinating different departments: pyrotechnics, practical effects, wardrobe, art department, storyboards. Then I supervise it all through post-production. I'm also a 2nd unit director so I do a lot of green screen work. I work with effects editors and compositors.”
Although a show like this needs effects to work, they seem to be secondary to the characters and their relationships. How does the production team balance the two key aspects of the show?
“I think it's beneficial that it's a character-driven show, so there are no gratuitous effects. The effects are there to enhance the Superman/Clark character. They also appeal to a younger audience. I try to let the effects live within the environment of the show. Stylised is the word I use for our effects. We always bear in mind that this is a comic book genre. We pick bright, wild colours for things. We try to stay true to the comic book nature of the original.
“For example, we add a blue cast to Superman's superbreath. Originally we had quite realistic looking breath, but it was just kind of grey and uninteresting, so we gave it a slight blue cast. For his laser eyes we photographed real lasers, but they looked too real, so we pumped up the red chroma on them and made them look more like we wanted them.
“This is my second season. I joined after the first season. Before this I did mostly commercials. I did big-screen effects for Michael Jackson's Dangerous tour and Paul McCartney's world tour and a couple of music videos. I worked on Shocker for Wes Craven and did some work on Total Recall. I also designed the titles for the Sharon Stone movie Basic Instinct.”
What differences do you find in working on a weekly series rather than a one-off movie or commercial?
“I really enjoy working on a regular series. It allows you to develop the effects further, and give them co-ordination. A commercial is really a one-trick pony. But the more times you see an effect, the more boring it becomes. We are able to put in lots of neat little gags, on things like the various gadgets that the villains come up with.
“Obviously we have budgetary and time constraints. The schedules are pretty hectic. Sometimes the writers do come up with ideas that we really can't do on the show and I say well that's great, but that's really going to have to wait until we do Lois and Clark: The Feature.”
How many effects do you have in an average episode, and how many people do you have in the effects team?
“The visual effects crew - including editors, supervisors and so on - all told there are about a dozen of us. There are about 30-35 visual effects per episode. But on 'Virtually Destroyed', which is the episode that Dean Cain wrote, there were 97 separate effects that we had to do in eleven days. So we got some freelancers in, and worked hard, and fortunately they tripled the budget for that one.
“It's very much a team effort on this show. We, the visual effects team, could not achieve what we do without the co-operation and smooth running of the other departments. It's unusual for me, coming from commercials, to work with the same team for so long. I really think I'm going to miss the atmosphere of this show when it ends.”
Were you responsible for the terrific time machine in the ‘Tempus Fugitive’ episode?
“Jim Paul designed the time machine. We wanted to go for that real HG Wells/Jules Verne look, but use 21st century effects for its appearance and disappearance - actually give it some glow and some effects rather than just have it fade away.”
How do the cast cope with some of the physical requirements of the special effects sequences?
“I'm a big guy, and I've gotten into some of the rigs that we've worked with to try them out and see what they feel like, and let me tell you, it was less than pleasant. The cast are great about the effects. We put them on platforms or hang them from wires. None of that feels comfortable, but they're all troupers.
“Obviously, Dean has to work with most of the effects, but he's in great shape, he really is. As for Teri, well Lois gets into all sort of precarious positions, trapped on ledges or falling out of helicopters or whatever. But they're really good, and they're always in a harness so there's no danger.”
I can imagine there might be a bit of competition to get the task of strapping Teri Hatcher into her safety harness. Do you use your seniority to claim that job?
“No, I don't get to put the harness on Teri. I put my name in the hat but I didn't get picked. I wish it was me, but no, we have a couple of people whose job is to put on the harnesses and check that they're properly secured.”
Tuesday, 11 March 2014
interview: 'Evil' John Mays
After posting my review of Savage Spirit in July 2006, I tracked down ‘Evil’ John Mays who kindly agreed to an e-mail mini-interview about the great special effects which he provided for that movie.
How did you get started in movie special effects?
“A friend of mine, Lance Pope, got me started. He owned a haunted amusement park/creature-and-props factory. I worked under his guidance for several years. He schooled me in the building of props, effects, costumes - and what actually scares people.”
How did you become involved with Savage Spirit?
“I got lucky. The production company was attending a convention where I was working as the prop builder/stage manager. They had already made one horror movie, They Feed, and planned to do another. On the next movie they wanted to pull out all the stops for the gore effects. I showed Connie Biskamp some photos of my work and they decided to give me a shot.”
What sort of constraints of time/money did you have on this production?
“Cory Turner is a good director and runs a tight ship. I needed to turn out the effects right on the first try if at all possible. The blood splat in the bathroom in the first five minutes of the movie, the axe in the chest in the kitchen, and the death by garage door were all done on the first take. The hand and facial wound make-up effects took about an hour each day to do, so I tried to plan ahead so as to not hold up production. The only thing that dries slower than paint is make-up which is needed ASAP to be on camera. As we all know, wasted time is wasted money.”
To what extent did your effects skills determine the story and the different types of death therein?
“They already knew what they wanted, and except for one effect that just did not look right on camera, nothing changed. Originally, Cory had discussed keeping the movie gore in the PG-13 category. That was before the first death scene we filmed (hand + garbage disposal + axe). We were able to pump so much violence and gore into that one scene that we all knew we had an R-rated horror movie on our hands.”
What was the most complex/difficult effect to achieve on this film?
"That would be the ‘death by garage door’ effect, and also my personal favourite. I had an idea of how it would look and we did one dry run to make sure all the pieces were in the right places. Originally, the head was to be caught under the door, causing it to stop moving down. As we started shooting, the weight and force of the garage door pushed the prop head to the inside of the garage instead. I fired the blood cannon just as I noticed the change in its position. We, inside the garage, were now coated in goo, and I was afraid the shot was a disaster. That was before I heard the cheering of the crew outside the garage.”
What other movies have you worked on recently, or do you have lined up?
“Quite a few projects have wrapped since then. I have been involved in three features: Razor Room (horror), In the Plan (a cop drama), Red Victoria (a horror comedy) and Damn U Bone (another cop drama soon to be in production). I have been asked for my effects in several other projects later this year: Dementia, The Tenth Axis and a few others that I am not at liberty to discuss.”
How did you get started in movie special effects?
“A friend of mine, Lance Pope, got me started. He owned a haunted amusement park/creature-and-props factory. I worked under his guidance for several years. He schooled me in the building of props, effects, costumes - and what actually scares people.”
How did you become involved with Savage Spirit?
“I got lucky. The production company was attending a convention where I was working as the prop builder/stage manager. They had already made one horror movie, They Feed, and planned to do another. On the next movie they wanted to pull out all the stops for the gore effects. I showed Connie Biskamp some photos of my work and they decided to give me a shot.”
What sort of constraints of time/money did you have on this production?
“Cory Turner is a good director and runs a tight ship. I needed to turn out the effects right on the first try if at all possible. The blood splat in the bathroom in the first five minutes of the movie, the axe in the chest in the kitchen, and the death by garage door were all done on the first take. The hand and facial wound make-up effects took about an hour each day to do, so I tried to plan ahead so as to not hold up production. The only thing that dries slower than paint is make-up which is needed ASAP to be on camera. As we all know, wasted time is wasted money.”
To what extent did your effects skills determine the story and the different types of death therein?
“They already knew what they wanted, and except for one effect that just did not look right on camera, nothing changed. Originally, Cory had discussed keeping the movie gore in the PG-13 category. That was before the first death scene we filmed (hand + garbage disposal + axe). We were able to pump so much violence and gore into that one scene that we all knew we had an R-rated horror movie on our hands.”
What was the most complex/difficult effect to achieve on this film?
"That would be the ‘death by garage door’ effect, and also my personal favourite. I had an idea of how it would look and we did one dry run to make sure all the pieces were in the right places. Originally, the head was to be caught under the door, causing it to stop moving down. As we started shooting, the weight and force of the garage door pushed the prop head to the inside of the garage instead. I fired the blood cannon just as I noticed the change in its position. We, inside the garage, were now coated in goo, and I was afraid the shot was a disaster. That was before I heard the cheering of the crew outside the garage.”
What other movies have you worked on recently, or do you have lined up?
“Quite a few projects have wrapped since then. I have been involved in three features: Razor Room (horror), In the Plan (a cop drama), Red Victoria (a horror comedy) and Damn U Bone (another cop drama soon to be in production). I have been asked for my effects in several other projects later this year: Dementia, The Tenth Axis and a few others that I am not at liberty to discuss.”
website: www.ejmfx.com
interview originally posted 19th July 2006
interview originally posted 19th July 2006
Monday, 10 March 2014
interview: Alan Marques
Alan Marques was Digital Effects Supervisor on Strange. I met him when I went on set in October 2002, when a scene was being shot involving a giant, demonic tree inside a house.
What does your role as Digital Effects Supervisor entail?
"I’m basically looking after all of the computer graphics and the post production for the whole series."
How does your work integrate with the on-set effects like this tree demon?
"As you’ve probably noticed, they’ve got puppeteers wearing green costumes, and also the animatronics are controlled by poles which have been painted green that are being operated by those puppeteers. So basically what we’re doing is we’re using that green colour to remove the puppeteers from the environment that they’re in. So for every shoot that we do, we have a clean background plate that we shoot afterwards which has nobody in the shot. We’re able then to use that green colour to remove them completely through the clear plate. In addition to that, there’s stuff we’re adding in post-production that you won’t see today, which is we’re adding actual tree roots that are growing out of the floorboards in the shot. So those are going to be on top of the shot to give it a bit of life. So there will also be things growing up around the camera and stuff like that - that’s computer-generated."
Do you and Neill Gorton’s team have to work together?
"Yes, we do. We go up and take lots and lots of reference photographs of the animatronic under construction, so we know what its surface textures are like. And I’ve taken lots and lots of reference photographs today. So yes, we do it in conjunction because when we come to our side we need to make sure that our CGI elements look the same, so we need as much reference as possible for that."
What attracted you to working on this show?
"The subject matter and the fact that the writing’s really good. Obviously Andrew Marshall has a good reputation, and when I read the script I thought, ‘Great, these are absolutely brilliant scripts.’ I see lots of scripts in my time, and these ones I really like. So I think that was what really got me - as soon as I saw the scripts I said, ‘We’ve got to do this show’."
When you’re reading a script and get to an effects sequence, do you immediately start thinking, ‘Oh, I could see how that would work.’ and start working it out?
"You can do, but typically you do it in conjunction with the director. Our first move was to have a meeting with the director who had already actually done some storyboards for the script. He has a vision and our job is to try and get his vision. You can read in a script what’s going on, but what you don’t know is how many cuts he’s going to use and from what angle. And from our point of view, that’s the important bit: we need to know what angle he’s shooting from, and how to achieve the effect from that camera angle. So basically it’s a combination, but typically we’re working with the director and his vision of the script."
Apart from helping with the tree here, what other effects are you doing?
"Quite a wide range. We have a number of big green-screen shoots. There’s a sequence which takes place on a London bus at night, as it’s travelling fast along a road. That’s all going to be shot inside on a green-screen stage and the backplates for that are being shot elsewhere. We also have an episode with a thing called the Death Coach which has to explode through a wall, from Hell. So it has to come out of this wall and the burning fires of Hell are behind it. It comes into this courtyard and basically the whole sequence takes place using a lot of green-screen and computer graphics to help that sequence be really dynamic.
"With this sequence there‘s going to be a lot of flames in the room but they can’t actually have flames in the room apart from a small flame-fork. So we’re going to be adding a whole load of extra flames in post-production from library footage. And also we have to make the tree creature burn but we can’t really burn it because it’s made of rubber. So we’re going to be adding flames on top of the tree and that will be done completely in post-production. We’re getting these lighting effects on it to make it look like it’s on fire, then we’ll work on it in post-production."
Are there CGI creatures?
"No, there aren’t - and the reason for that is cost. These budgets aren’t great and we’re basically set up to try and be as creative as possible. So the idea on the show is to do as much in camera as possible - Neill Gorton’s work. To actually build the creatures as much as possible, and where they need augmenting, then my side will augment them and actually add things to them. With this tree creature we’re adding branches that are digital. So that’s kind of the way we’re going with this show, simply because to build CG creatures takes a lot of time, and these shows are being turned round really rapidly. We have to do an entire episode in ten days, so that’s a very fast turnaround. Although we’re preparing for it upfront with a lot of planning, that’s still quite a tight turnaround and we have to work with that. Ten days to do the post-production for each episode - that’s enough time for us to do all our effects, to do our green-screen composites and remove the puppeteers from those shots."
Neill was saying it’s more like a film than TV work. Do you find that?
"Yes, absolutely. What they’re trying to achieve is quite wide-ranging, so yes."
Did you work on the pilot?
"No. This is probably the first major TV project we’ve worked on because my company’s fairly new, but I’ve worked on about 14 features over the years in various capacities, things like GoldenEye and Lost in Space. So I’ve worked on quite a wide range. My company’s been set up to try and help facilitate smaller productions who can’t afford big effects houses. We’re set up as a very different kind of business, one that allows us to produce this type of work very cost-effectively, and that’s why we’re able to work on shows like this."
Do you start work as soon as the rushes are through or do you wait until the whole episode is in the can?
"It’s a bit of both. Key sequences we’re given early because we need them as soon as possible. But typically, once the main cut’s done, we’ll be given the effects rolls to work on and we’ll have that ten-day period. But stuff that’s quite tricky to do, we’re going to be given specific shots early so we’ll have plenty of time to crack some of the more difficult sequences. This one today, for example, is probably one of the trickiest things. Removing the puppeteers is quite difficult. You have to have a clean background plate behind them, and sometimes, because the creature’s already in the shot, it’s very difficult to keep the shot clear. So there’s probably going to be a lot of paint work and retouch work.”
What does your role as Digital Effects Supervisor entail?
"I’m basically looking after all of the computer graphics and the post production for the whole series."
How does your work integrate with the on-set effects like this tree demon?
"As you’ve probably noticed, they’ve got puppeteers wearing green costumes, and also the animatronics are controlled by poles which have been painted green that are being operated by those puppeteers. So basically what we’re doing is we’re using that green colour to remove the puppeteers from the environment that they’re in. So for every shoot that we do, we have a clean background plate that we shoot afterwards which has nobody in the shot. We’re able then to use that green colour to remove them completely through the clear plate. In addition to that, there’s stuff we’re adding in post-production that you won’t see today, which is we’re adding actual tree roots that are growing out of the floorboards in the shot. So those are going to be on top of the shot to give it a bit of life. So there will also be things growing up around the camera and stuff like that - that’s computer-generated."
Do you and Neill Gorton’s team have to work together?
"Yes, we do. We go up and take lots and lots of reference photographs of the animatronic under construction, so we know what its surface textures are like. And I’ve taken lots and lots of reference photographs today. So yes, we do it in conjunction because when we come to our side we need to make sure that our CGI elements look the same, so we need as much reference as possible for that."
What attracted you to working on this show?
"The subject matter and the fact that the writing’s really good. Obviously Andrew Marshall has a good reputation, and when I read the script I thought, ‘Great, these are absolutely brilliant scripts.’ I see lots of scripts in my time, and these ones I really like. So I think that was what really got me - as soon as I saw the scripts I said, ‘We’ve got to do this show’."
When you’re reading a script and get to an effects sequence, do you immediately start thinking, ‘Oh, I could see how that would work.’ and start working it out?
"You can do, but typically you do it in conjunction with the director. Our first move was to have a meeting with the director who had already actually done some storyboards for the script. He has a vision and our job is to try and get his vision. You can read in a script what’s going on, but what you don’t know is how many cuts he’s going to use and from what angle. And from our point of view, that’s the important bit: we need to know what angle he’s shooting from, and how to achieve the effect from that camera angle. So basically it’s a combination, but typically we’re working with the director and his vision of the script."
Apart from helping with the tree here, what other effects are you doing?
"Quite a wide range. We have a number of big green-screen shoots. There’s a sequence which takes place on a London bus at night, as it’s travelling fast along a road. That’s all going to be shot inside on a green-screen stage and the backplates for that are being shot elsewhere. We also have an episode with a thing called the Death Coach which has to explode through a wall, from Hell. So it has to come out of this wall and the burning fires of Hell are behind it. It comes into this courtyard and basically the whole sequence takes place using a lot of green-screen and computer graphics to help that sequence be really dynamic.
"With this sequence there‘s going to be a lot of flames in the room but they can’t actually have flames in the room apart from a small flame-fork. So we’re going to be adding a whole load of extra flames in post-production from library footage. And also we have to make the tree creature burn but we can’t really burn it because it’s made of rubber. So we’re going to be adding flames on top of the tree and that will be done completely in post-production. We’re getting these lighting effects on it to make it look like it’s on fire, then we’ll work on it in post-production."
Are there CGI creatures?
"No, there aren’t - and the reason for that is cost. These budgets aren’t great and we’re basically set up to try and be as creative as possible. So the idea on the show is to do as much in camera as possible - Neill Gorton’s work. To actually build the creatures as much as possible, and where they need augmenting, then my side will augment them and actually add things to them. With this tree creature we’re adding branches that are digital. So that’s kind of the way we’re going with this show, simply because to build CG creatures takes a lot of time, and these shows are being turned round really rapidly. We have to do an entire episode in ten days, so that’s a very fast turnaround. Although we’re preparing for it upfront with a lot of planning, that’s still quite a tight turnaround and we have to work with that. Ten days to do the post-production for each episode - that’s enough time for us to do all our effects, to do our green-screen composites and remove the puppeteers from those shots."
Neill was saying it’s more like a film than TV work. Do you find that?
"Yes, absolutely. What they’re trying to achieve is quite wide-ranging, so yes."
Did you work on the pilot?
"No. This is probably the first major TV project we’ve worked on because my company’s fairly new, but I’ve worked on about 14 features over the years in various capacities, things like GoldenEye and Lost in Space. So I’ve worked on quite a wide range. My company’s been set up to try and help facilitate smaller productions who can’t afford big effects houses. We’re set up as a very different kind of business, one that allows us to produce this type of work very cost-effectively, and that’s why we’re able to work on shows like this."
Do you start work as soon as the rushes are through or do you wait until the whole episode is in the can?
"It’s a bit of both. Key sequences we’re given early because we need them as soon as possible. But typically, once the main cut’s done, we’ll be given the effects rolls to work on and we’ll have that ten-day period. But stuff that’s quite tricky to do, we’re going to be given specific shots early so we’ll have plenty of time to crack some of the more difficult sequences. This one today, for example, is probably one of the trickiest things. Removing the puppeteers is quite difficult. You have to have a clean background plate behind them, and sometimes, because the creature’s already in the shot, it’s very difficult to keep the shot clear. So there’s probably going to be a lot of paint work and retouch work.”
review originally posted 17th May 2006
interview: Chris Manabe
How did you get started in visual effects/animation?
“From a very young age I've always known that I wanted to work on visual effects for TV and films, whether it be make-up effects, practical effects, matte painting, or anything visual. At age 15 I got an Amiga 500 for Christmas and it came bundled with software that included Agesis VectorScape 3-D which was my first experience with a 3-D package; it later became Lightwave 3-D. I upgraded from the Amiga 500 to a 2000 and eventually to a 4000, learning all the paint and animation software available for it (Lightwave, Imagine, Deluxe Paint, etc...).
“When I graduated high school, 3-D animation was not really being offered in any real programs for college but I knew (especially after Tron) that 3-D artistry was my calling. So I got a job at a company called Color Systems Technologies and coloured black and white movies and did colour effects for commercials and TV shows. Although they paid very cheaply, working there was a great break for me because it gave me experience in working with SGI computers and helped me to gain a basic understanding of Irix, not to mention getting to work on some popular shows at the time (Star Trek: The Next Generation, Green Day music videos, and a show called VR.5). While working at CST, I was always developing both my artistic ability and 3-D animation skills. After CST, I started landing jobs as a cartoon colourist and landed a job at a company in Hollywood called US Animation (now Virtual Magic in North Hollywood) using their software of the same name.
"Eventually I landed a job at Creative Capers, which was awesome because there, with two others (Jeff Vacanti and Paul Grant), we started a 2-D cartoon ink-and-paint and compositing department. What a great experience! Capers gave me an opportunity to use my 3-D knowledge for some projects they had been working on, also the use of their equipment. I made my first real demo reel at Capers and with it landed a job at Foundation Imaging! Working at a place like Foundation you start to make connections for other work; hence landing the Spiders 2 job through my friend David Matherly who introduced me to Scott Coulter, the effects supervisor for that film.”
How does one go about animating something as complex (and icky!) as a spider?
“The spiders were rigged so that when you move the spider forward the legs would walk, but for just about every shot I worked on, this was not useful. For a standard walk it was fine but if the spider had to do something special, like climb on top of a freighter, then I had to animate each leg separately. I tried to keep in mind that an eight leg walk is similar to four bipedal walks tied together and then offset, so if the front right leg moves forward the next biped left leg follows, and also that the spiders forward push starts from the back legs, sort of like a quadruped or four-legged animal, minus the waist movements.”
What particular problems did Spiders 2 present, and how happy were Nu Image with your work?
“We had Joe Alter's hair plug-in ‘Shave and a Haircut’ on every spider. So we had to make sure the spiders’ hair was applied properly. If we changed the size of the spiders many times we'd have to adjust the ‘Shave’ hair. Eventually, if I couldn't get it to look right, I just sent it to David Matherly (‘Shave and a Haircut’ guru!) to fix. Talking to Scott Coulter and David Matherly, I know that Nu Image Films were very pleased with my work.”
What are the differences/similarities between animation and motion capture work (Roughnecks Chronicles, Dan Dare, etc)?
“Personally, I don't think there is much that is similar between motion capture and hand key animation. Motion capture is fantastic for realistic motion for humans or animals. It takes a lot of work for an animator to try and mimic a realistic movement, say a human walk; many times the animator wants to exaggerate the movement to bring out character in the walk, but realistic movement is more subtle. Also, even though you're using motion capture, you have to clean up the motion capture data and make sure the tweaks you make complement the motion and don't look unnatural. You need a good eye for realistic motion and movement.
“In hand keyed animation there's a lot more freedom in what you can do with motion. First of all, you have to animate to the style of what you’re working on, but if the style is loose then the chances are your animation can be loose. Then you’ve got to take into consideration what are you animating: a small, fast moving character or a large, slow one? I really enjoy hand key animation and in my opinion it takes more talent to hand key animation than it does to clean up motion capture. In animation you’re able to bring a character to life not just by making the character walk but by making it walk with its own personality. Also, in cartoon animation you’re not limited by nature’s laws of physics and exaggeration is not only acceptable but in most cases expected, in order to make it exciting to watch. With this type of animation you need to have a strong understanding of 2-D animation principals (anticipation, exaggeration, squash and stretch, arc of motion, secondary animation, etc...).”
Tell me about your personal project, The Demon Within.
“The Demon Within is a personal project that I wanted to do so I could learn more about the live action effects process. I'm a strong believer in doing personal projects in order to not only learn how to use new software, but to discipline yourself in the art. Also I like horror films so this is a sort of tribute to them. The best way to learn how to do something is to do it hands on. After working on Spiders 2, in which I did eight effects shots, none of which required any real 3-D camera reconstruction, I wanted to get deeper into the whole production process.
“I have to say, even though The Demon Within didn't come out the way I really wanted it to, it taught me so much on the importance of every step in the production process. I shot the footage on a cheap 8mm video camera which was a mistake because of the poor quality of it. At least I was still somehow able to use MatchMover 1.0 software to reconstruct 3-D camera data, and it was cool using that software for my first attempt at it. Finally, the modelling of me is not accurate, and I realise that the reason for this is because the pictures I used were not lined up correctly. I should have eyed it more closely; I feel I'm a better modeller then that. But here is what I mean about doing it to learn - after working on this project, my next one will be that much better.”
What projects are you working on now, or have you got lined up for the future?
“It seems lately that with many run-away productions leaving Hollywood, I'm doing anything and everything I can to get by. I want to move onto more higher-end productions, so I'm now working on a new project involving Maya 4 Unlimited. The project itself will involve a basketball character, will be an entirely 3-D production, and will have over 30 shots. From the looks of how things are going so far, it will be my best work yet. It should be done in a few months and that's all I'll say about it for now.”
website: www.cramsite.com
interview originally posted before November 2004
Saturday, 18 January 2014
interview: Marc Kolbe
Watching Krrish when it was released in June 2006, I decided that I had to interview someone who worked on the film. I contacted Marc Kolbe who, with Craig Mumma, provided the effects for both Krrish and Koi... Mil Gaya and he very kindly agreed to answer some question by e-mail.
How did you and Craig Mumma get the job of providing special effects for Koi... Mil Gaya? (Was this before or after you worked on Devdas?)
“We were working on Devdas at the time and Rakesh Roshan had just watched Independence Day and saw our names and had heard we were working in India. So we had a meeting with him and hit it off. We were very excited about the project and we were looking for projects that would allow us to push the Indian talent to the limits. And this was the perfect fit.”
How familiar were you with Bollywood cinema before you started working on Indian films?
“Not very familiar. But we learned very quickly. And are still learning. But then, we are still learning in Hollywood...”
What are the biggest differences, as a visual effects artist, between working in Hollywood and working in Bollywood?
“The biggest difference is the culture. And I use the term ‘culture’ because I haven't really found the perfect word that explains it. Oh sure, the technology is the same, the talent is working its way up the ladder to the same quality levels, that just takes time, it’s the look and feel that is different. But this is why we shouldn't make Bollywood films feel like Hollywood films. They should stand on their own. Now as for quality, yes, they are in the process of coming to International levels.
“Now for us, growing up with the Hollywood style of film making, it is a very different mindset than in India or anywhere else in the world for that matter. But that is why working with good film-makers, who understand their market and genre, and listening to their ideas and taking that and adding the quality of work which they are wanting - that is the challenge. Trying to mix ideals and getting something different.
“As for the artists, all they want to do is learn. And that only takes time. With each project, they get better and better. They have a huge desire to succeed in this industry. Which I really like.”
How closely was Rakesh Roshan involved with the effects on Koi... Mil Gaya and Krrish?
“Very involved. As I implied above, he was our guide to his market. We brought the experience and quality to get his vision up on the screen. But he brought us into his world. There were many times that we would argue about a particular shot and the look and feel of it. Craig and I would make sure the quality was there and he made sure it was the vision. When all was said and done it worked very well.”
What new challenges did Krrish present over and above what you had done on the first film?
“Every film has its own set of challenges. The biggest one was learning to work with basically two directors at the same time. I had Rakesh and then I had Tony Ching directing the action stunts. Two completely different people. But I learned so much from the both of them, it was an exciting project. Working with Tony was more like choreographing a dance number. He worked with Hrithik during the stunts and then would play with camera speeds to get the flow of the stunt. Great experience. Working with Rakesh is always fun, we have a great time and have a great admiration for each other’s expertise. I enjoy learning new areas, I always say there are no experts in this industry, only ones that have made more mistakes. And obviously, the key is to learn from them...”
How has Bollywood’s understanding of effects and effects technology developed in the time that you've been working on Indian films?
“By leaps and bounds. With every project we do, the level of professionalism gets better and better. That goes for the production side as well. I feel we have finally convinced the producers and directors that if they want to do this level of VFX and have it be a key element in their film, they need to think and plan for it way in advance. This was a big issue when we started in India. Once, VFX was an afterthought; now films are built around them.”
interview originally posted 6th July 2006
How did you and Craig Mumma get the job of providing special effects for Koi... Mil Gaya? (Was this before or after you worked on Devdas?)
“We were working on Devdas at the time and Rakesh Roshan had just watched Independence Day and saw our names and had heard we were working in India. So we had a meeting with him and hit it off. We were very excited about the project and we were looking for projects that would allow us to push the Indian talent to the limits. And this was the perfect fit.”
How familiar were you with Bollywood cinema before you started working on Indian films?
“Not very familiar. But we learned very quickly. And are still learning. But then, we are still learning in Hollywood...”
What are the biggest differences, as a visual effects artist, between working in Hollywood and working in Bollywood?
“The biggest difference is the culture. And I use the term ‘culture’ because I haven't really found the perfect word that explains it. Oh sure, the technology is the same, the talent is working its way up the ladder to the same quality levels, that just takes time, it’s the look and feel that is different. But this is why we shouldn't make Bollywood films feel like Hollywood films. They should stand on their own. Now as for quality, yes, they are in the process of coming to International levels.
“Now for us, growing up with the Hollywood style of film making, it is a very different mindset than in India or anywhere else in the world for that matter. But that is why working with good film-makers, who understand their market and genre, and listening to their ideas and taking that and adding the quality of work which they are wanting - that is the challenge. Trying to mix ideals and getting something different.
“As for the artists, all they want to do is learn. And that only takes time. With each project, they get better and better. They have a huge desire to succeed in this industry. Which I really like.”
How closely was Rakesh Roshan involved with the effects on Koi... Mil Gaya and Krrish?
“Very involved. As I implied above, he was our guide to his market. We brought the experience and quality to get his vision up on the screen. But he brought us into his world. There were many times that we would argue about a particular shot and the look and feel of it. Craig and I would make sure the quality was there and he made sure it was the vision. When all was said and done it worked very well.”
What new challenges did Krrish present over and above what you had done on the first film?
“Every film has its own set of challenges. The biggest one was learning to work with basically two directors at the same time. I had Rakesh and then I had Tony Ching directing the action stunts. Two completely different people. But I learned so much from the both of them, it was an exciting project. Working with Tony was more like choreographing a dance number. He worked with Hrithik during the stunts and then would play with camera speeds to get the flow of the stunt. Great experience. Working with Rakesh is always fun, we have a great time and have a great admiration for each other’s expertise. I enjoy learning new areas, I always say there are no experts in this industry, only ones that have made more mistakes. And obviously, the key is to learn from them...”
How has Bollywood’s understanding of effects and effects technology developed in the time that you've been working on Indian films?
“By leaps and bounds. With every project we do, the level of professionalism gets better and better. That goes for the production side as well. I feel we have finally convinced the producers and directors that if they want to do this level of VFX and have it be a key element in their film, they need to think and plan for it way in advance. This was a big issue when we started in India. Once, VFX was an afterthought; now films are built around them.”
interview originally posted 6th July 2006
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